I think we need to be ok with that. It becomes as much of a stink then when someone is demanding an apology. This, I think, is what the use of a filter is for.

I agree, with the exception of the continually annoying behavior. And if so, if it's a pattern, not an isolated incident, the complaint should be worded to reflect that and show the pattern of behavior.

eta, and what Kat said.

Okay, Deena, I'm confused. Schmoker brought the complaint to bureau, specifically complaining that Rob (or whomever) was baiting him over his hyperbole. Rob walked away, and that's what Victor said was resolved. What does that have to do with Schmoker apologizing (in that very limited instance).

In other words, when Schmoker annoyed Rob in the thread, Rob got nasty. Schmoker was then the complainant. We didn't go after Rob because he dropped it all, even though he didn't (as far as I remember) apologize.

I was unintentionally cobbling two things together, and for that I apologize.

1) Schmoker, during some other instance, stated that he refused to apologize if he didn't feel he was wrong. I don't recall what he was asked to apologize for. That may be why he felt things were settled in the firefly situation, because he wouldn't have apologized either, if, in fact, no apology was forthcoming.

2) I did think Rob (or whomever) apologized for getting heated and saying he wished he could block Schmoker, but I do know he wasn't happy. However, I believe Rob was, at first, the one offended because he (and others) thought Schmoker was belittling them and their love of firefly. He didn't complain anywhere but in thread, went over the line, was called on it and then backed off (or, perhaps, left). So, in that instance, I didn't really think of Schmoker as the legitimate complainant. This is all probably very highly colored by my feelings regarding S.

edited to try to make sense.. also going to go wander off. I'm taking this too seriously and it's making me less coherent.

I'm getting so specific, because I just don't want to see the whole community get up in arms over an incident that has died a natural death, and because although I respect the forced-apology as a method, I don't want it to be law (even though I'm personally likely to apologize so that things don't escalate -- I'm easy, but not cheap, yo). Still, I want a pattern of *only* annoying behavior (when it's temporarily dropped but then resumed) to still be actionable.

eta...

Clearly I want my cake and I want to eat it too, atop a pony, a pink one, and I'll call her Apple Blossom, and we'll have marvelous adventures together.

Cindy, my fault for bringing it up as an example in the first place. I thought, since it was so far in the past and S is no longer a concern, that the example would help to clarify thoughts on how to figure out who was or was not willing to settle things in thread first before registering a complaint. Trying to answer the concern regarding an influx of bullies -- basically, that their complaints would probably end up being a non-event. I don't think I expressed well why I feel that way.

Still, I want a pattern of *only* annoying behavior (when it's temporarily dropped but then resumed) to still be actionable.

I think this makes sense. You can't say you're sorry and then start up the same shit a week later. That is a pattern of behavior, and it should be actionable the same way one extreme incident is.

Actually, I didn't apologize to Schmoker because I didn't do anything wrong. Saying you plan to filter someone isn't something I knew was offending to anyone. I just consider it information for the poster that I find their manner so valueless that I don't want to read it anymore.

Then ita stopped by and told me to cool it, so I did. It was hard enough to just drop it, though, I don't know if I could have been brought to apologize for it. That would have seemed just too unfair.

That said, I understand now that a decent number of Buffistas consider a threat to filter fighting words, so I certainly won't do that again.

Just throwing this out there:

4 months. yes/no

Rob, I'm sorry for using you as an example. It wasn't my intention to make you feel you needed to explain yourself. I'll stick with using me from now on.

Msbelle, 4 months for what, exactly? until an event can't be brought up anymore?

I am very much of the "apology optional, drop the matter and never speak of it again, go on pleasantly as though nothing's happened" point of view. The insistence on apologies in various situations--I'm thinking court cases now--has practically devalued apologies completely to my mind. "Oh, but he didn't say he was sorry!" only makes me think, "But he's not sorry he did it, he's sorry he got caught and he's only going to apologize because his lawyer knows the jury expects it." Harsh sentencing on the grounds that a defendent has not shown remorse seems a tad naive.

I actually think Rob is an excellent example of how not apologizing doesn't always mean bad things. There was no harm done, Rob chilled and, as he said above, he won't be doing it again because he understands the community reaction and he respects that. It's all good.

I really don't want to see whether or not someone apologizes becoming the be all end all. But maybe that's just me.

ETA: What connie said.