I wasn't surprised that Cable Drama was the first proposed because there are new shows and new episodes that people want to talk about unlike the Network stuff that's all in reruns and won't be new until September. Network Drama could have been proposed first, but other than talking about reruns I'm not sure what discussion would have gone right now.

They may be the heart of the board, but they're not the whole of it for me, or even the half of it.

Cindy said it much better than I did. If I had her spicy brains, I would have said it this way the first time.

I came to the board because of a TV show. I popped into Bitches early on because of the thread name. I only stuck around for a little while before I popped right back out and declared to myself that I would never darken its doors again. This was in the middle of the contretemps with she-who-shall-not-be-named. The tone of the thread at that time was so offputting, I got the feeling that the original denizens were a bunch of bitchy, stuck up snobs and being a n00b with no idea of the social dynamics that had been put in place long before I ever arrived, I decided I was better off without it and stuck to just the show threads. I don't know how long it was before I decided to give it another chance and found that it really was a warm and welcoming place where I felt safe exposing my emotions. But I didn't leave the show threads and just because I joined the Bitches didn't mean I was going to desert the show threads

So, I learned a couple of things through all this.

1) Group dynamics change as new members join and old members leave. Fact.

2) Shows debut and shows die. The circle of life television. It changes the dynamics.

3) This board is a constantly changing entity and there is nothing that can be done to stop it. Doesn't mean we need to let it mutate from cancer and let it run away with uncontrolled growth, but I don't think anyone will be able to stop all growth, all change.

4) We live to vote to change it in ways we want it to change. It's not a fly trapped in amber. Slow moving molasses, maybe, but not amber.

I think that those folks who believe no change is good, need to accept the fact it's going to happen and that those who want to cut down the rainforest to build McMansions willy-nilly need to accept zoning laws and have a care for the environment.

This may only make sense to me. I don't know if it's helpful, but I needed to say it. I'm done blathering, now.

There might be time to watch and discuss tv if I didn't spend so much of it reading all these threads of spicy brained posts.

Yes your post makes sense, SailAweigh. And Cindy not only says what I feel, but says it so much better than I could.

I don't talk tv a lot because I don't watch it much. But I enjoy reading the posts that are far more enjoyable and interesting than the actual television show, for me. Natter and Bitches work for me, but they don't work for in-depth discussion of television. I don't have a personal stake in how and where television is discussed. I do care about the people that post on this board and hope that we can work out a way to structure our threads to accommodate our conversations most comfortably.

Can we please drop the supposition that anti-proliferation = anti-any-change-at-all-ever? Because it's not even remotely true, and it's one of the least helpful straw men out there.

There were major changes in culture when we moved in here, as there were when we moved from TT to WX. The biggest, I think, is that in both of our previous homes, we were one group of threads on a larger forum. The creation of one new Buffista thread was a much smaller deal when we were sharing space with fifteen squillion other subcommunities. Here, in our own sandbox, I think it behooves everyone for us to consider how each new thread will change the shape of our community on a deeper level than "I want a place to talk about CSI."

Some tv shows I only "watch" by reading Buffista comments. Like Dr. Who. I feel like I've seen the whole run, when I've only actually watched the first three episodes. For whatever that's worth.

I wasn't there for it, so can someone tell me why Bitches was spun out of Natter? Because for the longest time I couldn't tell the difference. Actually, still can't, except for who usually posts in which. Maybe they just merge for me because I post in both.

I think Bitches spun out of Buffy. It was in place by the time I delurked.

Once upon a time, it was quite a bit different from Natter. More, err. Naughty. Lots of sex talk and discussion, much of it centered around Spike, but not all. Heck, the fic thread spun out of it.

Has there been this much sturm&drang before when threads spin off? We're talking a lot about board history and culture, and I realize that I don't know much of its history, so maybe this change looks very different to me than it does to others who've been around here longer.

Would I be horribly out of line if I suggest we table the thread creation issues for a short while? It seems to me that people are a) still recovering from the SPN fight, b) worried or at least wondering about where the board is going as a community and c) trying to figure out where and how they fit into the community.

Given that, and given that none of the shows in the proposed drama thread or the likely to be proposed comedy thread will be premiering new episodes for at least a month, and given that we are likely to see new people coming in and old people returning because of Allyson's book (YAY ALLYSON and her book), maybe this would be a good time to Doblerize a little.

I am definitely NOT trying to quash the suggested threads. I think we need to address them, and do so before the fall premieres, but I kind of think maybe emotions are starting to run a little too high, and maybe 2 weeks from now would be a better time to have this discussion, after we have all had a chance to chill and think a bit.

And again, I find myself wishing we could actually sit down and talk about Who We Are, and Where We Are Going, for longer than the stupid four days we get to beat our heads against this wall every time a thread gets proposed.

And I also agree that recreating the experimental threads in their exact forms completely defeats the purpose of the experimental threads, so what was the fucking point then?

It seems like we always get the same people making the same arguments, without any of the arguments ever getting resolved. And on top of it, I don't always understand people's positions, despite the fact that those people have been making their arguments for years. Prime example -- I'm always surprised when Jessica is anti-proliferation, and while I have frequently seen her shoot down many reasons stated by other people that are not why she's anti-proliferation, I don't feel I have any clue why she is anti-proliferation.

I think the last several thread creation discussions have made it clear to me that we are a confederacy, and confederacies have been proven over and over and over again to not be sustainable in the long run. We need to go our seperate ways, or have some sort of constitutional convention to really figure out Who We Are, and What We Want From the Board, or I think the community we're trying to desperately to protect and shape is going to fall down around our ears.

I support that, Lee. I think two weeks would be a very welcome release valve for us.