Why do you want to withdraw the proposal?

So much of the conversation has been about what (in my head) seems like the next step after this one -- your post where you listed shows is one such example (the one with action/adventure titles, and unconventional procedural titles, etc.), as is Hec's post (which garnered some agreement in this thread):

I don't know if that's the best way to do it. I think the best option is to put up a "just right" sized bucket thread, black font and see if it works.

Now, I would love a just-right bucket, but (a) a lot of people seem to be anti-bucket, and (b) I don't know what shows would go in a right sized bucket and I don't actually think we'll know what shows work until people start talking about TV in the experimental threads.

There's lots of TV I talk about that I don't talk about here. I wanted to talk about it here, once upon a time, but I got used to not doing it. I have no idea how to do it here, or who else is interested at this point (beyond a handful of people).

To me, the point of the experiment (not the refining of this proposal here and now, but the actual experimental threads if we ever get that far) is to figure out which shows deserve their own threads, and which shows would fit in right side buckets, and which bucket categories interest the Buffistas. In other words, I don't want to hear that you, (or Drew, or Hec, or brenda, or I) think people will like talking about Bones.

Instead, I want to see people talk about TV, realize they're all grooving on Bones, and that Bones deserves a thread.

To me, the point of the experiment (not the refining of this proposal here and now, but the actual experimental threads if we ever get that far) is to figure out which shows deserve their own threads, and which shows would fit in right side buckets, and which bucket categories interest the Buffistas.

Okay, so what kind of experimental thread(s) do you think will give you that information?

Very much along the lines of what bon bon proposed in Bureau. -- I'm thinking along the lines of drama; comedy; and unscripted ("reality" shows and the like).

I think we could go one more step and break that into cable drama, network drama, comedy; and unscripted. I don't think I would want to refine ahead of time, any more than that (but am open to it). To my mind (right now, again, I'm open), the refining will come in June, after the threads are shut.

If people aren't buying into it though, it's okay. I'm just as happy (not despairing, actually happy) to abandon the proposal. It only has a shot of giving us information if people buy in, compromise, and realize this is a starting point (wrt things like white font, and the signal-to-noise ratio in such large categories), not the end game, and then use the threads. If everyone stays in Natter/wherever else, it's a waste of our four days, here.

I'm thinking along the lines of drama; comedy; and unscripted ("reality" shows and the like).

I think these are good buckets, except that I'd leave unscripted off the list. (For the same reasons I gave in B'crazy -- mainly that those shows are too fluffy to generate the kind of sustained discussion that would warrant their own thread.)

Let's at least have the discussion. If we don't work something out, you can easily withdraw the proposal then.

I keep harping on Dirt (which I like, but don't hanker to discuss) because I think FX is a flawed bright line. Use the anti-hero description if that's what you really mean. A channel with an unspoken subset understanding is not good metadata.

METADATA!! Let's do a card sort!

So, does "antihero drama" capture why SA thinks that FX shows belong in Premium?

Hm. More or less. Enough for our purposes, anyway. But I would still only extend that to FX shows, with the season constraint.

It only has a shot of giving us information if people buy in, compromise, and realize this is a starting point (wrt things like white font, and the signal-to-noise ratio in such large categories), not the end game, and then use the threads. If everyone stays in Natter/wherever else, it's a waste of our four days, here.

I suppose the thing I'm concerned about, Cindy, is that whatever ideas come out of such broad bucket threads allow for some maneuverability. Like, if we open a cable drama thread and there's three thousand Psych posts and a handful of Monk posts, or even no Monk posts, we still allow a space where we can discuss Monk according to the guidelines we set up. So that if someone *did* want to discuss Monk, there would be a space for it, even if it didn't show up in the initial experiment. Does that make sense? I'm willing to go along with the experiment like that, for the sake of compromise and because I really do see what you're saying, even though it's not how I'd like to go about it. But I'd want to know that we'd be setting up threads that allow for potential discussion that might not occur in the experiment threads, due to overwhelming number and diversity of shows, the people watching at a given time, summer seasons, upcoming fall shows, etc.

Would The Amazing Race come under Unscripted? Because when that airs, Natter looks like a whitewashed fence.

I suppose the thing I'm concerned about, Cindy, is that whatever ideas come out of such broad bucket threads allow for some maneuverability. Like, if we open a cable drama thread and there's three thousand Psych posts and a handful of Monk posts, or even no Monk posts, we still allow a space where we can discuss Monk according to the guidelines we set up. So that if someone *did* want to discuss Monk, there would be a space for it, even if it didn't show up in the initial experiment.

You've got to follow the findings, or what point the experiment? Who's going to ban Monk posting? Post about Monk where it's always been appropriate, if you don't get any findings from this test that give a specific Monkish place.

I'd love to think there's an experiment whose findings dictate places for every show that make every Buffista happy, but the odds seem distant and slim.

In the meanwhile, if there's a need for a Psych thread revealed, let's at it.

I'd hate to think this was being viewed as an experiment to justify, instead of discover.

we can discuss Monk according to the guidelines we set up

I'm calling this out because I don't understand it specifically--do you mean the guidelines we will set up?

(It's funny--I'm totally wondering why we're not discussing having a Drive thread--surely it's not just Tim's past track record of pickup success. It just seems obvious, and not in need of experimentation to demonstrate)