Flames wouldn't be eternal if they actually consumed anything.

Lilah ,'Not Fade Away'


Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!  

We open it up, we talks the talk, we votes, we shuts it down. This thread is to free up Bureaucracy for daily details as we hammer out the Big Issues towards a vote. Open only when a proposal has been made and seconded according to Buffista policy (Which we voted on!). If this thread is closed, hie thee to Bureaucracy instead!


Matt the Bruins fan - Apr 14, 2005 6:47:18 am PDT #5441 of 10289
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

I think Susan W. summed up my feelings on the matter very well. I'm throwing my hat in with the apparent consensus that this is a board etiquette matter rather than something requiring a formal vote and rule, and that now that several people have voiced strong dislike for sock puppetry it would be courteous for people interacting in this manner to identify themselves in profile for the benefit of those bothered by it.


Wolfram - Apr 14, 2005 6:49:37 am PDT #5442 of 10289
Visilurking

Thus the secondary account "Zeitgeist" would have the profile entry "this is really Sign O'The Times".

I found this confusing, because it took me second to figure out Sign O'The Times represents a regular poster name. Maybe a sample name that's not so abstract?


Betsy HP - Apr 14, 2005 6:56:25 am PDT #5443 of 10289
If I only had a brain...

Sure. Make it Fred.


Scrappy - Apr 14, 2005 6:58:36 am PDT #5444 of 10289
Life moves pretty fast. You don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

I think it should be "Bob" and his sockpuppet should be named "Carrot Lover" but that's just me.


Fred Pete - Apr 14, 2005 7:00:43 am PDT #5445 of 10289
Ann, that's a ferret.

OK, Betsy. If I created a sockpuppet called "Life and Everything" (to go with The Universe), board etiquette would require me to put in my profile or tagline that "Life and Everything" is really Fred Pete in disguise.


Betsy HP - Apr 14, 2005 7:01:19 am PDT #5446 of 10289
If I only had a brain...

Right.


Topic!Cindy - Apr 14, 2005 7:03:39 am PDT #5447 of 10289
What is even happening?

I think it should be "Bob" and his sockpuppet should be named "Carrot Lover" but that's just me.
seconded


msbelle - Apr 14, 2005 7:05:32 am PDT #5448 of 10289
I remember the crazy days. 500 posts an hour. Nubmer! Natgbsb

All along this has been an Etiquette/FAQ proposal, not a formal bylaw.

for my clarification, where are the official bylaws?

I ask because I think of the How-To, Etiquette, and to a much lesser degree the FAQ as our rules pages.


Nutty - Apr 14, 2005 7:26:59 am PDT #5449 of 10289
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

Questions:
1. How do we feel about sockpuppets?
2. Based on those feelings (in the aggregate), may we regulate sockpuppets?
3. How might this regulation be achieved? How would a violator of regulation be "caught"?
4. If we do regulate, and catch violators of regulation, what would the consequences be?
5. If we don't regulate, can sockpuppets vote?
6. Do we hafta vote on this?

Answers:
1. Many feelings here. Personally, I see sockpuppets as lying. Sometimes, lying is cute and funny and harmless. Sometimes, it really really isn't. I think it's unwise to legislate against lying across the board; but if I caught a fellow Buffista in an important lie, something that affected the board's temperature, I might invoke the disciplinary procedures and ask for a warning.

2. Based on the answer to #1, I am tending toward the side of not legislating, on basis that the disciplinary procedures can reasonably be expected to cover anything actively harmful to the board. I don't see as how we can legislate against general annoyingness; and we already have legislation against specific hurtfulness.

2A. The self-identification in profile or tag seems like a polite thing to do, though. This wording from Betsy is good to add to the Etiquette file:

"Please be aware that posting under multiple pseudonyms annoys some Buffistas. If you use more than one Buffista account for the same person, please identify yourself in the profile of the subsidiary accounts. Thus the secondary account "Zeitgeist" would have the profile entry "this is really Sign O'The Times". This helps people distinguish unlurkers from game-players."

3. I'm not sure how one would technically catch a determined sockpuppet. If you'll recall, one of our first sockpuppets, of the not-nice variety, was Mieskie/Schmoker, who was kicked out and re-registered under a different email, and it took weeks and weeks before someone figured it out. And that discovery was based on off-board behavior (a photo). How would we discover "illegal" sockpuppets? I don't know if we can close all the potential loopholes in our registration process without becoming crazy.

4. Consequences, well, we have Discipline already. Hurray for all that annoying procedural talk all those months ago! All hail msbelle puuuuushing that legislation to a vote!!

5. ABSOLUTELY NOT. One person, one vote. Sockpuppets are, by definition, not people; therefore, they may not vote. If you try it, and get caught, I will be there with the Discipline in hand, ready to complain. But, notice how, it's the existing Discipline, not anything new. I think we have coverage for these situations already, in the existing rules.

6. No we do not hafta vote just because we opened Lightbulb. Betsy has given notice that she is happy to withdraw the proposal; nobody else has taken it up as something that wants to vote; therefore, proposal can be withdrawn without tongue-waggling, as per Cheesebutt, and we can just all be consensuary and in agreeance.

Speaking of the Cheesebutt (Actually I call it the Lawspeak, but am open to other names), it needs an update, but once I have updated it, I think it needs to be linked all over the place, as part of the link salad at the bottoms of pages, etc. Whenever we get into one of these procedure discussions, someone always asks, "Wait, where is the Cheesebutt??" Which is what msbelle just did.

I will go talk about that in Bureaublahblah, for the sake of tidiness.


bon bon - Apr 14, 2005 8:06:28 am PDT #5450 of 10289
It's five thousand for kissing, ten thousand for snuggling... End of list.

If you'll recall, one of our first sockpuppets, of the not-nice variety, was Mieskie/Schmoker, who was kicked out and re-registered under a different email, and it took weeks and weeks before someone figured it out. And that discovery was based on off-board behavior.

Even worse-- I think people had suspicions early on but it took a while to actually prove it with external evidence. But he was knowingly violating the rules by posting anyway, so it isn't so germane to the rules re: sockpuppets discussion.