I'm not sure the whole proposal vote thing is absolutely necessary, but it can't hurt.

To reply to some stuff from Bureau:

Meaning that a sockpuppet poster knows who they really are and we don't?

Yes. I feel like the sockpuppeteer and whoever else is in on the secret is, basically, fucking with us for fun, and it bugs. A lot.

I didn't know who they were (still don't know who March was), but they weren't being mean to anyone, IIRC

You didn't think March's fixation on Kristin was kind of creepy? Clearly, in that case Kristin was okay with the joke. But if she hadn't been, it would have been pretty close to Internet stalker territory, what with the tagline about "blood of a tweedy one" and all.

The thing that scares me is that someday, there will be a March who *won't* be an innocent in joke. And I really don't want to have a precedent that says we're okay with sockpuppetry.

(And I've been told that March was also Trudy, but I obviously don't know for sure.)

I'm not anti-SP per se. I'll admit it can be annoying--but I usually only get annoyed when I can't figure out who it is.

I don't think I'd support a no-SP rule (with a SS exception) because I've seen sockpuppets lighten the mood when it really needed lightened.

But that doesn't mean that people who get annoyed by sockpuppets are humorless. If I get annoyed by something, I'd like to think I could speak up without gettting a tongue stuck out at me and without being called a humorless meanie.

Can you elaborate on this? In what way?

Similar to Betsy, I guess. I like talking to (or reading posts by) people. Sock puppets != people.

It's a very people-y place for me here, and the abstraction doesn't serve that sensation. But I'm here for that sensation. That's part of the the board's appeal.

Quoting myself:

Maybe sock puppets should be required to have the tag: Hello! This is ____! I have created this persona for humorous purposes!

Then everybody wins

I am not being snarky, btw. It's a nice compromisey solution.

It's obvious that what people find funny varies a lot from poster to poster.

As for this discussion, proposing things, debating them and then voting is the procedure we as a community have agreed on when someone wants to change something or make an official policy. Clearly some people think this is enough of an annoyance to make a policy.

Proposal making is open to one and all. Maybe this will get voted down in a landslide.

Let's debate the issue, not the procedure.

The thing I worry about with sock puppets is, I have seen them used extensively and disruptively by trolls on other boards to the point of shutting things wdown. They seem to be a favorite tactic of trolls. as a matter of fact. I thought March and Universe were funny and enjoyed them. but we can't really say "sock puppets are okay if most people think it's funny and you can say you;re a newbie as a joke, but you ACTUAL newbie probably shouldn't do it, and you troll REALLY shouldn't do it." So the idea is, be funny. but be funny under your own name. Trudy is always funny under her own log-in, so I can't imagine she wouldn't continue to be.

At the risk of generalizing, I hate all sockpuppets. I don't care if they're created as a joke, on a bet, accidentally, by your cat, while drunk, all of the above, whatever. I hate them.

One post? Fine, that's a joke.

More than that, and I reeeeeeeeeeeally start to resent being asked to have a conversation with someone who won't tell me their real name. It's rude and childish and I honestly can't understand why people try to defend them as "fun." They're fun for the creator at the expense of everyone else.

When boring topic rolls around, I can scroll past. When a sockpuppet pops up in the middle of a conversation I'm already having, am I supposed to politely bow out? Why? Just because I don't know who they are means I should quietly accept what I percieve to be incredibly rude behavior from them?

Sorry, but no.

Sean, do you have an alternate solution? How would you handle the recurring discontent?

No, I don't have an alternate solution, but part of my fear is that we have too much solution. I know this will sound flip, but I think solutions are a little overrated.

I don't know how to handle the current discontent, because it's not my discontent. The reason that voting in a proposal seems like a poor solution to me is that it tries to make an across the board solution for discontent that is not felt across the board.

But I would also like to note that my comments are not trying to squash the discussion, either. I accept that maybe this will only be a discussion, and not turn into anything more.

I don't know, maybe I don't have any useful input, but I am a crank, and frequently feel that input is overrated.

Maybe sock puppets should be required to have the tag: Hello! This is ____! I have created this persona for humorous purposes!

I would be absolutely fine with that, incidentally. I'm not as bothered by the conversations (which are silly but can be scrolled past) as I am by the masking.

a) offends my database sensibilities

Weirdly enough I get this. I like scrolling my mouse over newbie's id numbers to see how many subscribers we have. And then I have to mentally subtract 10 numbers that were used by SPs. I have this irrational wish that we could get those user id numbers back. I don't know why.