I'm not actually convinced a book club will be successful, but that's more about the commitment required for people to participate. And if it does work, and/or encourage more in-depth discussion of both assigned and nonassigned books in Literary, then I think that's a success.

I think this is a legitimate issue, but I'm still interested in trying. I think it can work, in part because we have such a large pool of readers that we'd only need to get 10 or so on board for any particular text to generate a good discussion. (Note: I'm not saying only 10 people will use the thread. But that would be something like a functional minimum on whatever we had on hand.) Also, I think if somebody is willing to moderate/lead the group that will also generate discussion. Also, if we include things like poetry and plays, then the time commitment isn't as great as a 700 page novel.

I'm speaking up because I, like Consuela and some others, get the distinct impression Literary is being portrayed as something that needs to be left behind for substantive discussion to take place -- and I take issue with that. We've had some regular Lit posters say they *don't* feel comfortable with in-depth analysis, which I entirely support their right to say -- but I'll also say the same thing I say in show threads, which is that I still feel entitled to engage in it.

Since I was probably the most egregious in my comments, I'd like to apologize. I don't feel like Literary as it currently exists needs to be left behind. I've enjoyed the thread and the people who posted there - and I'll specifically note that I have a tremendous amount of respect for Micole and Consuela. Well-read, thoughtful, measured in their comments, always respectful.

Certainly you have to choose your battles, know when and why you should take a stand. This really wasn't one of those burning issues - something got up my nose and I addressed it bluntly. I wasn't even a little bit angry about it - it was just something that had been bugging me for a long time and it was galling.

But I'm not sorry I started the discussion or what I said. I think it produced a very useful discussion, even though there was definitely some bruising.

Being inoffensive was never one of my life goals. However, I do not believe I should purposefully set out to offend nor insult people either. Aside from my personal scruples, it's not good for the board. I've tried to address people directly in the boards where I had specific issues. If anybody feels generally and broadly tarred by my characterizations I apologize.

I'll reiterate what I noted during that discussion - I have tremendous respect for the opinions of the people in Literary. I know Betsy and her taste well enough that if she endorses Georgette Heyer, then that's gold to me. Even if I'm unlikely to read a regency era romance.

There is not one person in Literary that I think of as incapable of deep, thoughtful, interesting, provocative analytical discussion. But there were enough people who were loudly, consistently, reflexively against it that it did dissuade that kind of talk.

As for the current issue under discussion, I was persuaded by Consuela (and others) point that the nature of Literary as it had existed (many books, many posters, little focus) was also a significant factor in quelling susustained discussion on a particular topic. That's why I think a book club thread is a good idea.

But I also think there is no chance a book club would work within Literary. It's already going to be hard to get it up and running - it needs the sort of slight, guiding pressure that having its own thread will generate to maintain momentum and traction.

It seems to me that the primary objection to a special book club thread (and I could be misperceiving) is that we have the literary thread, which sh/would be used for such discussion.

And the taxing of resources. Those seem to be the two big objections.

There are feelings that a book club in Literary c/would be disruptive to that thread.

Kim, this is not my primary objection to the Literary suggestion, and I think a lot of people are missing this point. I feel that a book club in Literary would be disruptive to the book club. Whether it will be disruptive to Literary is a different thing.

ETA: and this from Hec's post above - But I also think there is no chance a book club would work within Literary. It's already going to be hard to get it up and running - it needs the sort of slight, guiding pressure that having its own thread will generate to maintain momentum and traction.

Would it be practical to table this proposal and go ahead and start a book club in Literary, as an experiment for a month or two?

For the foregoing reasons, I can't table the proposal.

I'm actually in favor of the book club thread, Wolfram. Just trying to spell out the aspect of the objection that I find most compelling.

And, Calli -- I emailed you.

Wolfram, I never said that was your primary objection, but that it was my understanding of the majority of dissenters here. I may well have misunderstood. I am always willing to admit when I am wrong. It seems to me that the issue of taxing the resources, while brought up early on, was not a focal point of the discussion until just recently, and I feel it is a valid concern.

(FWIW, I like the idea of a Book Club thread, though I would probably just lurk there, too.)

If you don't feel it's practical to table the proposal then you shouldn't. It's your proposal. I only wanted to offer a suggestion I hadn't seen.

(And I think this is coming across as touchy and defensive, and I don't mean for it to. I just want to be clear and concise.)

(Edited, because I hate that it sounds touchy and defensive and I can't seem to make it sound less so.)

Since I was probably the most egregious in my comments, I'd like to apologize.

It's not necessary, but I appreciate the monkey-grooming. ;)

I'm sorry to have restarted the argument, or seemed like I was doing that; let me try to boil this down to what's applicable to the current argument. Part of the discussion seems to be constructed as "Literary serves a purpose the Book Club would disrupt," and I wanted to put in my two cents as a Literary participant who doesn't think the Book Club would be disruptive, or antithetical to the purposes of the thread.

A separate issue is, I think, the idea that "Literary would disrupt the proposed Book Club," which I think is possible but not as certain as many posters do.

A separate issue is, I think, the idea that "Literary would disrupt the proposed Book Club," which I think is possible but not as certain as many posters do.

I'm more in this boat - It'd be like trying to conduct a seminar in the middle of a cocktail party.

In the f2f book club I'm in, we will frequently get side-tracked to different topics. It's not quite a cocktail party atmosphere, but there's usually wine and clever people who like to talk (usually about the book, but not always). Theme X in the book reminds such and so about an event in her life, that event reminds so and such of something that happened to her. We've all known one another for years now (mostly) so it's easy to wander off into various digressions. However, it's also easy for interested parties to say, "Such and so digression reminds me of plot point Y in the novel," thus bringing things back on track.

I don't know if this would be effective in an online forum or not.

Kristen, see my post here.

Wolfram, I saw your post this morning and I appreciated the clarification. My post was in response to Cindy's comment, which read to me as her feeling this proposed thread was being held to a different standard to previous proposed threads.

I expect there will be digressions and tangents in the book club thread. I just don't think we'd be able to maintain a relatively tight focus in Literary.

It's not necessary, but I appreciate the monkey-grooming. ;)

One more (at least) then. Betsy, I am sorry that in my original posts I cited Heyer, Crusie, Sayer. Those stuck in my mind not simply because discussion had returned to them frequently, but because their virtues had been so well articulated in the thread. After the fact, I realized those were all writers which you had particularly championed, and you could certainly read my comments as a direct insult on your taste. I did not intend that.

It was because you had so effectively made the case for those writers that they were on my mind, and had generated enthusiastic readers in the thread. Anyway, I feel bad about it and did not intend any slight to you.

But I'm not sorry I started the discussion or what I said. I think it produced a very useful discussion, even though there was definitely some bruising.

I hope it was useful to others, because, like Hayden, I'm still really bruised and bitter from it.