Don't you measure that by results? Results like, say, new threads?

I was measuring by, among other things, vocality and consistency, and the general impression that more threads have been voted down than approved. Are those numbers wrong?

Not to mention that I count the massive thread consolidation as a huge victory for the anti-proliferation camp.

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So, carry on, without that last factor. It's irrelevant.

I'd need to go back and recheck, but I'm fairly sure that though you were the most articulate in laying out your position, you weren't the only one who felt that way. And if you're no longer subscribing to Literary, then it is relevant, because you and the others were there first, were participating and talking and swapping recs and posting links to articles and all the rest.

I wasn't getting what I wanted out of it, so I didn't participate -- well, boo hoo on me. That doesn't give me the right to repurpose the thread and make it a place where you don't go. If anything, it makes me want a separate thread even more; freewheeling, non-twisty and gnarled discussion and recommendation-swapping are a totally valid thread purpose, and it makes me profoundly uncomfortable to think that anyone with a longer and deeper history with the thread isn't there anymore.

I apologize like mad if any of that, or anything else I've said, sounds patronizing. I don't value the bones-and-marrow discussion of one or two pieces over the more wide-ranging general book-riffing, but the overall vibe I got from the kerfuffle was that although there was interest in both kinds of discussion, a lot of the long-term posters did not feel at ease with both kinds. And, given that, I personally would feel more comfortable, less like an intruder or interloper or intellectual bully, having a separate thread for each kind.

Hopefully with plenty of crossover between the two, but space for each.

I'm probably still stating it very badly indeed. More apologies.

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I'm thinking that some of the arguments that were anti-general tv thread are applicable to using the literary thread for a book club thread too. I so don't want to hunt them down.

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What JZ said.

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And if you're no longer subscribing to Literary, then it is relevant, because you and the others were there first, were participating and talking and swapping recs and posting links to articles and all the rest.

Oh lord, I was not planning on participating in any of this.

Sweets, just for reassurance, and speaking only for myself: this really, really is not a problem. OK? Truly. If a book club thread would allow people to go on about whether or not T.H. White really meant to use an allegory of Nazi Germany in The Once and Future King, or whatever said book happens to be, I'll vote for the thread in a heartbeat. I won't go within a country mile of it, but I'll do my best to make sure you guys get to have it.

And, regardless of outcome of this particular discussion or vote, I'm out of Literary. Truly. Not speaking for Aimee, or anyone else who may have my feelings about crit; just speaking for me.

I don't want to be there again, period. So it doesn't arise.

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Lobby? Camp? Group of people sharing a basic opinion?

Two of those terms are a little more polarising than I'd have used. As far as I can tell, we've had Music, LotR, Minearverse, Firefly, Firefly Spoilers, Great Write Way, Technology -- all formed since we got here, no?

I don't expect everyone to have the same paranoia over board performance that I do -- I take every delay personally. But I think tossing around terms like "lobby" and "camp" are a little much.

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I was measuring by, among other things, vocality and consistency, and the general impression that more threads have been voted down than approved. Are those numbers wrong?

I believe so, yes. Most threads that have been proposed and remained proposed until a vote occured have been created.

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Board not called Bookistas, to be blunt.

Not called Cinemistas, LotRistas, Comicsistas, Technoistas either, and yet it accommodates those all nicely. I think it does, anyway. It’s not like books and Buffistas are unmixy things.

I think there's a false assumption that Bookclub would generate a mass of traffic akin to showday and post episode watch and posts. A slow, but steady, influx of commentary seems the more likely possibility.

Why is one a false assumption and one a likely possibility? Closest thing I see is a show thread – we all agree to have a book read (episode viewed) by a certain date, and then we talk about it, most heavily on the date and a few days to a week after. Also, even if it does create a slow and steady pace, that’s all the more reason I’d want it in a dedicated thread – so I’d have a big bunch of back-to-back posts.

discussions threatened to swamp Natter...so we have a thread for that

Is this the only valid reason for creating a new thread? Doesn’t seem to be to me.

So, I figure it this way. If I'm thinking about voting for a thread, is it one that I would send more money to keep us on a dedicated server for? Is it a thread that fills a need not filled elsewhere?

Those are good criteria. For me, the answer is yes, I’d pony up more money to keep us on a dedicated server (actually, I feel this way anyhow) for what I anticipate being a good thread, a book club thread. Is it a thread that fills a need not filled elsewhere? Well, it seems to be. There is no book club, and people who inhabit Literary acknowledge that they don’t have lengthy discussions about one book at a time.

Also, FWIW, I want a dedicated thread, because I think it will be easier to follow, and it will make me happier to have it work like a show thread. I cast no aspersions and pat not the heads of anyone in any thread (unless asked to head-pat for comfort) anywhere with regard to the type of discussion that they have had, do have, or will have … or don’t have, or have been accused of not having.

I just want a book club. You can talk about ‘em however you want, using whatever language and terminology you choose. And there’d better be a good sci-fi read in the queue at some point. IJS

Also? I just did a whole combo color, font size thing in the abbreviated way DX showed me last week, and I’m kind of proud if it worked. Which it didn't. Until just now. Carry on.

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But I'm a bit disgruntled at the continued statements about how the Lit thread residents are scared off by the big nasty bugbear of critical thinking. I appear to be in the minority on this, but it continues to rankle. Can we kindly stop patting some of the local residents on the head, saying in effect, "You're so cute, with your Bridget Jones and Georgette Heyer reading. Now go sit at the kiddy table while we grownups talk about Middlemarch."

What. Suela. Said.

the general impression that more threads have been voted down than approved. Are those numbers wrong?

To my memory, the only thread that's ever been proposed and voted down is Politics. On the flip side, we've added Movies, Music, Minearverse and Lovesick My Ass. Just off the top of my head.

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Not called Cinemistas, LotRistas, Comicsistas, Technoistas either, and yet it accommodates those all nicely. I think it does, anyway. It’s not like books and Buffistas are unmixy things.

Nope. Tech and Other Media (which is/was technically a Jossverse thread, BTW) are holdovers from before we paid the bills, and Movies and LotR are from before we had issues that lead to the cracking down on wanton thread creation.

Is it a thread that fills a need not filled elsewhere? Well, it seems to be. There is no book club, and people who inhabit Literary acknowledge that they don’t have lengthy discussions about one book at a time.

Don't != Can't, nor does it = Won't.

Why is one a false assumption and one a likely possibility? Closest thing I see is a show thread – we all agree to have a book read (episode viewed) by a certain date, and then we talk about it, most heavily on the date and a few days to a week after.

Because the closest is probably the Other Media thread, where most of us get and read our titles within a certain date, and then we talk about it, most heavily on the date and a few days to a week after.

I could be wrong, and we could all have a sudden, blinding urge to discuss books, but I suspect that like comics, the OC, Alias, or any of our other subinterests, you're not going to get a huge percentage of board participation, and I don't think that more dedicated server money is worth it in that event.

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