Not trying to be a hardass, but to me it's seeming more and more that a Book Club thread isn't so much about "discussing specific books" but not wading through other peoples' posts while you do it.

The purpose of a Book Club thread is to have a book club. Focused discussion on specific texts where everyone is (so to speak) on the same page. Literary may not mind having book club in their thread, but I can't see any book club succeeding with discussions of other books consistently interrupting the discussion on the text. Can you imagine trying to discuss a recent Angel episode in Natter? Sure you'd get a bit of superficial discussion about Angel's pants or Wes's hotness, but you wouldn't get the in depth character analyses, or the multiple levels of discussion that each show engenders.

Someone upthread (Kat?) said she's never seen a successful online book club because interest fizzles out. Well starting a book club in another thread among conversations about other books, is the surest way to hobble the horse before it gets out of the gate. I have to disagree with Heather on this, I don't think book club would work in Literary.

Also, one rule that I think should apply to Book Club thread (similar to Sang Sacre) is to limit natter in thread, for all the above reasons.

We haven't had that kind of discussion in there because there are a good number of people reading a good number of books.

Also - I hate to bring up the kerfuffle, but... several people in the current Literary thread have indicated that they're extremely uncomfortable with the kind of discussion Heather is talking about, due to a variety of factors: everything from fear of and discomfort with academic jargon (which I, pro-book club talky meat though I am, also dread - I'd far rather keep it smart but conversational), to an express desire to continue using the thread as a recs-only source, to a strong fear that deep analysis will kill their gut-level heart-and-soul love.

I lurked in Literary for a long time but I've rarely posted there, precisely because it doesn't offer the kind of broody bad-boy discussion Heather describes so well. Some of the people who do post there often, and have for a long time, have indicated very, very strongly that not only are they not interested in that kind of discussion, they feel it's antithetical to their pleasure in literature and its frequent presence in the thread would make them want to go away. So it's not just a matter of adding in posts on a subject other posters will have to skim past; it would be a matter of adding in posts that would make the regular longtime posters feel actively unhappy and unwelcome.

Or, anyway, that's my take on their feelings. Which I totally and completely respect, which is why a separate book club thread seems like a better idea than taking their thread and remaking it into an actively unpleasant environment for them.

Earlier I mentioned that I thought it wasn't like natter. And I do believe that. It's more like Press with an occasional half-discussion. I'm not sure if you're there a lot, but it tends to be Press-like posts about what's been read that week, with some description and some interpretation maybe, but not enough people have read it to have a discussion. It doesn't get to the natter conversation level because, apparently it's not as common for enough of us to have read a book as it is for enough of us to know or like otters. It's comparing apples and oranges.

Reading a book is a particular experience. I can't just say "I read a book!" and have people say "Me too." and expect there to be any kind of a discussion. I can, however, say "Oh my god I just saw the biggest blue bird." and expect that to lead into a discussion of who else has seen a bluebird, when was the last time they saw a bluebird, what was the most amazing bird they ever saw- etc.

I felt like it would be repurposing because it would be a bulk of discussion. It just seemed rude for me to say "Hey y'all let's have a book club in here!" without talking to people about it first.

but you know if I have to use the LotR thread to discuss the book, I will.

So would I (and I pretty obviously agree with my assessment, so I'm not gonna reprint that).

MM - re: livejournal - my reason for not really wanting to do it that way is that not everyone here is there, and I really want to do one with the people here. In fact, I think someone is starting an lj thing. I just see it working better in this format. And, yeah, lull/activity, but that's the same with show threads, right? I don't see that as a for or against thing.

Literary may not mind having book club in their thread, but I can't see any book club succeeding with discussions of other books consistently interrupting the discussion on the text. Can you imagine trying to discuss a recent Angel episode in Natter? Sure you'd get a bit of superficial discussion about Angel's pants or Wes's hotness, but you wouldn't get the in depth character analyses, or the multiple levels of discussion that each show engenders.

Again, I don't see how a discussion can be "interrupted" on the board. Somebody posting in between your post and whoever you're talking to...doesn't mean you have to stop and acknowledge the middle person. Ignore them, if you want.

I could indeed have an in-depth discussion of an Angel ep in Natter if I wanted. I just wouldn't get distracted by other conversations.

I don't have the time to cut and paste from JZ's post, but my response boils down to this...it's the posters' individual responsibilities to deal with discussions in whatever manner best suits them. If somebody feels their appreciation for a book will be lessened by an academic discussion, they can scroll past the discussion and pretend it never happened. They aren't forced to read every post in the thread.

And, since the kerfuffle came up, I think the opposite applies...if you want to have a discussion about a book and somebody pops in with "Read that, hated it"...so? Ignore them. You don't have to respond. Edit them out of your personal universe and continue your discussion with whoever you were originally talking to. Had people done that, the kerfuffle wouldn't have happened.

You are not obligated to read or respond to every post in any thread.

it's the posters' individual responsibilities to deal with discussions in whatever manner best suits them.

Then why do we bother to have any threads at all, exactly? All discussion should take place in one giant thread, and it's the individual poster's responsibility to ferret out their own discussion?

That doesn't really make any sense to me.

Or me. And MM, it's easy to say that all the book clubbers should parse posts to find the ones about the current book. But in reality, most people just won't do it. Even if they say that they will.

Uh-oh. Sean's bringin' in the ferrets. And, also, I agree with the sentiment. There are logical places to split subject matters for discussion - it has worked well here, I think (some feel there is too much fracturing; I'm not of that opinion). In my mind, Book Club is a logical, self-contained, thread-worthy category.

I think Wolfram nails it with, "The purpose of the Book Club Thread is to have a book club." It has nothing to do with Literary issues to me. Could it run in another thread? Well, yeah. But that's not how I think it'll work best, and I'm cheerleading for what I think will work best, not just how it could possibly be doable without changing anything.

(ETA: Oh, and I didn't see Kat's follow-up post where she isn't, in fact, putting the k question on the table again, so never mind my re-answer)

What JZ said. There are people who very much use Literary in its established manner.

What Wolfram said.

But mostly? What Sean said.

(And I actually prefer, am more used to, and love linear boards with everything in one place, but this isn't one.)

Also, would this combining the two involve white fonting, for the sake of those who don't want to see the discussion the club is conducting in Literary? Because if you want to talk about things that get in the way of conversations...

I think having a book club is a good idea. I'm not totally convinced it needs its own thread, but I'm not really strongly against that, either. It really depends on the volume, I think -- if it's going to be a whole lot of posts, then people who want to participate in Lit but not in the book club will have to do a whole lot of scrolling and skimming to find the non-club stuff, which would probably be a pain. On the other hand, if it's not too many, than putting it in its own thread would be kind of pointless. But, I'm pretty sure that, if it is in a dedicated thread, then there will be more posts than there would if it were in Lit. So my arguments are getting all circular, and I'm not totally sure where I stand. Yet. I'll keep reading what everyone else has to say.