Even though we have policies in place for dealing with trolls, implementing them is never an easy thing, for the stompy feet or the board in general. The times we had to do this in the past were not fun for the board. Increasing the likelihood of these incidents may not be the wisest policy.

This is going to be a much bigger problem than I realized at first. It's not just about inviting people who will only be here to stir up trouble-- it's that stirring up trouble just sometimes happens with new people, no matter how nice they would be if they'd been here longer. (And, with all due respect, I think Wolfram is a good example.) Much of our discretion simply comes from respect for the board and for the feelings of our friends, and we can't really expect that of new people. If I had come here for WF, a week later found the politics thread, I'd be flaming before the month is up. Because I wouldn't have any good reason not to let my emotions drive my posting.

In other words, I am strongly against ghettoizing discussion that we dislike having on other threads.

One thing that really makes me hesitate about opening a Politics thread is the whole Caroma debacle. It could easily happen again. (Not necessarily with her, specifically, though IIRC she wasn't banned and could therefore return.)

Yes, it could happen again in any thread; I realize that. But a Politics thread, regardless of if it's named Vegas or if it's named Vargas, just seems like it would be inviting agita.

t edit Hmmm. Or, basically, What. Shawn. Said.

Also, I will volunteer as a vote counter.

As for the timeline - we opened the thread yesterday, today is one day... the end of the four day discussion period will be mid-day Monday, then it's three days of voting.

Also seconding what Shawn and Steph just said.

Plus? It's one thing to have Torll removal procedures in place, but politics is one of the topics that seems to attract the really nasty trolls. And really nasty trolls? Not so easy to remove by just banning them, or locking out their ID.

If we start attracting trolls because of our politics thread, it may take a frightening amount of effort and nastiness to dislodge them.

My main reason for wanting a separate politics thread is that back when politics was last discussed frequently in Natter (around the time the war started?), it seemed like every time the conversation got enjoyable and interesting, someone who didn't want political discussion would complain, and the topic would get dropped. That hasn't happened lately, but I don't know if that's because the topic hasn't come up as much or because the people who hate political discussions have made the same decisions to scroll past as I have WRT interminable discussions of TV shows I don't watch and have no interest in watching. (Note that I'm not saying those discussions are bad, just that we all have the topics that annoy us, and that those are mine.)

If it's the latter, I wouldn't mind keeping politics in Natter, because then as the campaign picks up, I'll be able to talk about it freely in that thread. OTOH, if people are going to start complaining and trying to restrict political discussion in Natter around the conventions and as November approaches, I'd rather have a thread where those of us who so desire could talk about it freely.

So basically this would be an additional place to discuss politics, with Natter continuing to have almost as much politics as before; I'd be cool with that, but I'm not sure how happy the people who are proposing it would be. Aimee is gone until Monday, but I get the feeling that is the exact opposite of what she was hoping for in proposing it.

That is one point that should be clear; is this meant as way to let people who want to have political converesations finish them, as oppose to having them die out in Natter before they are through? Or an attemp to drain politics out of the natter threads? Cause I think it would be a bad thing to have it passed with two completely opposite hopes and expectations as to what it would accomplish.

I mean if it passes with an a clear intent, I think that even people who don't support it will still do their best to make it work. But if it passes with support from people with diametrically opposed sets of expectations then you have a major new source of acrimony.

That is one point that should be clear; is this meant as way to let people who want to have political converesations finish them, as oppose to having them die out in Natter before they are through? Or an attemp to drain politics out of the natter threads?

Why are these mutually exclusive? A separate thread will likely drain much politics discussion out of natter threads while, at the same time, allow people who want to have political conversations a chance to finish them.

If you do this, it's totally Beep Me. IJS.

What. flea. said.

Um, not addressing my issue.

Maybe I should use a different example. Let's say a Buffista is trying to decide whether to have an abortion, and wants to bounce things off fellow Buffistas. Natter/Bitches/Unamerican, or Politics?

I would really hope that anything like that would still go in natter/bitches/unamerican, and that any political discussion that grew out of it would be free to stay there. Anything like that that I was going through would absolutely go into one of those threads.

In a politics thread there would be the illusion that people were only arguing the issues. In Natter, it would always be clear that politics are personal, and that when you're arguing an anti-abortion position directly with somebody who has had an abortion, you must take that person's experience into account as you discuss it.

I don't see why that wouldn't be the case in a politics thread, unless it attracted posters and conversations of a very different sort than the rest of the board.

One thing that really makes me hesitate about opening a Politics thread is the whole Caroma debacle. It could easily happen again.

That possibility does scare me; not even necessarily Caroma, but someone feels like her political views aren't being respected, gets pissy about it, and ends up bringing unnecessary ill will into the board. (Or even someone who doesn't get pissy, but simply leaves.)

Of course, that could happen without a politics thread, too. So, I dunno. It does seem the potential for can-of-worm openage is higher in a dedicated thread, though.

And my thread-nanny suggestion is withdrawn. Thanks, Fred Pete.