I'd probably post a few times.

I'm still very very on the fence, despite my rabid political feelings.

And, since I'm on the fence, I just want to thank everyone who's posted their yea/nay reasons so far, because they *are* helping me to formulate which side of the fence I want to vote on.

My general thinking is no -- and the reasons are two:

1) I've had wonderfully civil political discussions in Natter and other threads, and they only come up occasionally but are not stifled, and I do think they stay civil-er when they are in a social context.

2) I don't find politics interesting enough to have a whole thread dedicated to it. And it seems to me that not many others do either, since currently The O.C. gets more posts than political discussions do.

I will admit that on a couple of spectacular occasions, political discussions have gotten ugly (in 2002 once I posted something like "Okay, people, everybody needs to shut up and go away", and that was, how you say, atypical for me), but I don't think that a separate thread for politics would cause ugliness not to happen.

I suppose I'm persuadable, but it would take some serious persuasion. Chocolates and money to be sent to the usual address.

I'm also on the fence. As the election approaches, people will have more to say on these issues, and frankly, I want to hear what other Buffistas are thinking. So I'd likely read, and probably post.

My general preference would be to keep this stuff in Natter, though with my limited access recently, that means I just miss it all. So a dedicated thread would be helpful (to me) but whether that would outweigh the potential for strife...I don't know.

I do like the idea of a trial period with a straight up or down vote, and I'd also be in favor of some sort of immediate shut-down contingency plan, but I'm not sure how that could be crafted.

I'm leaning pro, because I like topicy threads and I'd like to have a place to channel political discussions.

I would want the following caveats, though (in addition to the three-month trial and non-trollbaity title and header):

• If it crashes the server, it goes. (This seems obvious to me, but we should be explicit about it, since that is a real concern.)

• If it turns out to be a source of great misery to all involved and leads to an untoward number of trolls or disciplinary issues, it goes. No need to wait out the full three month trial, or six months to a revote.

• We become huge thread nannies and all political discussion goes there.

I think as we get closer to the election there will certainly be more political posts, but I would still rather have them be a part of Natter--only because it is hard to separate politics from other aspects of life and they seem to flow naturally one into the other. I think making politics a separate topic encourages people to think of it as ideas only, rather than something we both think AND live, and that idea-only atmosphere is fertile ground for disciussion to get shrill.

When I've had coffee (or, rather, coffee and sleep, so sometime this weekend), I think I have a whole lot of reasons why I think that increased thread count, while good for sheets, is bad for community, leading as it appears to to clusterings of sub-communities with little bleedover.

Plus, the server problems.

I'm against, at the moment.

Probably hopelessly x-posty because it took a while to write this the way I wanted it. But here goes --

I like LJ's first two comments. I'm not so sure about the last, for several reasons.

First, I'm worried about excessive nannyism. Part of the charm of this board is the potential for thread drift (in most threads). I'm not sure I want to see any topic being segregated to one and only one thread. We don't do it for movies or music, and I can't see a reason to single out politics for such treatment.

Second, there isn't any clear bright line separating politics from (for want of a better word) non-politics. For example, the legal status of some Buffistas' relationships is a very visible political issue right now. If Hubs and I move to Massachusetts and get married next month (not likely, but less likely things have happened), should I announce it in Natter or Politics? There's an argument that it would belong in Politics, while I have no doubt that heterosexual marriage announcements would never be sent to Politics. Maybe I'm overreacting, but I don't see any way of guaranteeing that it won't happen. On a less personal level, would discussion of a new book by, say, Al Franken belong in Literary or Politics?

Third, there's a potential chilling effect. If I don't know whether I can say something in Thread A, I'm more likely to not say it than to take it to Thread B. I can accept that in Beep Me and Press because those threads are very narrow in scope. But I'm not sure I'd like to see the idea applied to as broad a field as politics (and by implication, possibly current events generally).

I understand the desire to keep an important subject in Natter, but trying to keep track of Natter on an intermittent basis is like trying to kayak the Colorado River during spring runoff for five minutes at a time. It's not something you can just hop in and out of with any hope of success. If someone wanted to have a focussed debate on tax policies or job creation or such, you've got to hope you haven't missed someone's very telling counter-point amidst the talk of cats and gardens and who knows what all goes on in Natter. (I haven't even bothered looking in Natter in months.)

If it swamps the server, shut it down. No prob.

If it poisons the entire board, shut it down. Though the acrimony of Bureaucracy hasn't managed to seep too far into all the corners of the board. Granted, tensions are felt, and the non-combatants often say "Hm, Bureaucracy's getting a lot of posts, that explains some of the twitchiness. But, hey, let's talk chocolate."

I think we're letting fear rule us on this. What is so horrible about just giving it a try? Do we distrust ourselves that much? With everything else we've gone through, I think we are mature enough in here to debate real, tough issues without it descending into anarchy and blood in the streets.

And if the idea of a political discussion taking place in a section of the board separate from where you are really is so disturbing, then just avoid it. People avoid Bureaucracy all the time, and no one suggests not having that thread.

It's better to try it and then say, "OK, that was very educational, let's never speak of it again", than to say, "Nope, wouldn't be prudent at this juncture."

I would find a Politics thread interesting, as I find much intelligent, well-written discussion in the other threads, and I'm sure this would be no exception. Some of the posts in the Minearverse thread on Heinlein's/Rand's politics have convinced me of this. (I am so far behind in the thread, though, that I haven't come across the negative posts that seem to be referenced in the discussion here.

However, I do feel that the acrimony could effect the board in general. Also, no matter how well we disguise the thread, I'm sure some troll would end up finding it and start causing problems. Even though we have policies in place for dealing with trolls, implementing them is never an easy thing, for the stompy feet or the board in general. The times we had to do this in the past were not fun for the board. Increasing the likelihood of these incidents may not be the wisest policy.

Since we are still concerned about the technical issues of board health, adding a thread with the resultant increase in posting volume is a further argument against the thread.

The probationary period proposal (say that three times fast) is an interesting compromise. It would allow us to participate in a sociological experiment (is it possible to have a productive politcis thread and not have a negative effect on the board?). (Does anybody want to lock them in separate rooms and do experiments on them? Just me, then)

I guess the main issue boils down to whether the addition of varied and intelligent political debate (and its concomittant disappearance from the other threads) worth the risks to board health and general disposition of our community.

Is that wishy-washy enough?