I came for Buffy. I found Bitches. I'm still here for Bitchy Fic.

Being UnAmerican, I will be unsubbing from some threads when the surges start: I don't even want to be spoiled for Smallville. I'm not keeping up with Bitches at the moment, but I certainly won't be trying to if people discuss SV or Angel in there. When the time comes for me to catch up, I don't want to go through dS and F posts looking for SV discussion, because they really aren't on my radar and heaven knows I don't need another fandom; and I want to go to the Angel thread for Angel discussion. And when I want to know how people are, I read the annoucement threads and Bitches.

Combining PPO and Bitchy Fic is a good plan (I've been known to write SV/Buffy crossovers. One thread, more fandoms? Better for me.) but GWW is something different. There are writers here who take part in both, but I think it's very important that people be allowed to talk original writing without fanfic talk getting in the way. They are related, but they're different creatures: and if you put them in the same cage, one will eat the other.

Have the UKers seen all of the Firefly episodes at this point? If so, I would vote for consolidating the spoiler and main thread. If not, consolidate them when they have seen them all.

Yes, we've seen them all. The reason for not consolidating is that the the three US-unaired eps remain spoilers for US viewers who are holding out and waiting for the DVDs. When the DVDs arrive, if there are no spoilers in sight for the movie, then FFS can be closed; but not before. It wouldn't be fair to spoil the USians who've been so kind about not spoiling UKers in those threads.

Personally, I think that the Firefly quotables thread can be closed (we can quote Firefly in FF or FFS when we feel like it); that the Angel quotables thread goes on as before while the season's running (I'll have a binge and read all season five's posts when they're no longer spoilers); and that the Buffy thread naturally closes at the end of the deathmatches.

It's tempting to say 'why aren't we doing FF deathmatches?' but the answer is that the spoilers are still a problem, and that while I'd love to run them, I don't have time.

Post-DVDs and if the movie doesn't appear, I can see that Firefly and Farscape may have enough in common that they combine: Ff and F, Cancelled Shows We'll Always Love. That seems to me to be more natural than combining F, dS, and SV.

Bitches Anthology I'm not sure about. I think Bitch writers need to discuss what happens to it, and that discussion should probably happen in the thread itself: I don't know who's subbed or how they feel about it. It may have died; it may just be resting.

Sang Sacre is resting. Nail it to the perch if you must, but leave there and ready to fly again when a nice fijord happens to walk by.

We should keep Sang Sacre open as housing for people exiled from Bitches and Natter. Otherwise I see Mejiaville becoming a shantytown, while a booming Nillytown has to annex Smallville...

We should keep Sang Sacre open as housing for people exiled from Bitches and Natter. Otherwise I see Mejiaville becoming a shantytown, while a booming Nillytown has to annex Smallville...

Today Smallville, tomorrow the world!

(Did I just channel my inner Jor-El? Yes. This can't be good.)

sees visions of Bitches invading When Come Back Bring Tape in retaliation. It's renamed When Come Back Bring Glitter (and Spike), and while tapes are still provided, they come wrapped in frilly pirate shirts.

Okay, so it's not all bad.

t /silly

I think we should...

• Ditch the idea of having any

Seriously. Get rid of it for Angel, Buffy and/or anything else. We can talk about the syndicated episodes in the main show threads. They're not spoilers.
Bang. 1 thread gone.

• Ditch All Quotables Threads

Elena is putting the Quote Death Matches on hold for two weeks while she is off line. Can we temporarily close Quotables? If/when it's determined that it's safe to continue the Quote Death Matches, reopen the Buffy Quote thread. When it's over, retire the Buffy quote thread. Retire the Firefly Quote Thread. Show's over, folks. Retire the Angel Quote Thread, too. You think there was a brilliant line? Mention it in a topicy post.
Bang. 3 more threads gone
Total gone: 4

(If we eventually achieve server equilibrium, we could consider opening 1 Quotable thread, each summer, to play Death Matches, and close it when the Death Matches are over.)

• Combine all Fan Fiction threads.

All: Fan Fiction,* Bitchy Fic, PPO, Bitches' Anthology. Keep original fiction separate, because - yeah, it's about writing, but it's original work, written by published or trying-to-be authors, honing their craft. It deserves its own place on a board populated with people as gifted as the Buffistas. I say this as someone who never posts there. Keep Fan Fiction separate, because it's work safe, as fiction is not posted in it, but the other fic threads are not.*
Bang. 2 more threads gone
Total gone: 6

• Close all spoilers lite threads

(iow - add Angel spoilers lite to the close list, along side Buffy spoilers lite)
Let's be grown ups. You want to be spoiled? Be spoiled. You don't? Don't. You only want to know one thing, either email a more-spoiled friend, check TV Guide or Zap2it, or Sci-Fi Wire. Alternatively, avert your eyes; hit the "last" link in Spoilers; post your question; ask someone to respond to you in an otherwise clean post, using your name. Control+F for your name later.
Bang. 2 more threads gone.
Total gone: 8

• Only have one Firefly thread

How about adapting board culture for Firefly - since it's over and all and there wasn't even a full season? How about either relegating discussion of the UK-only-aired episodes either to UnAmericans, or to white font in a single Firefly thread? Yeah. I know we don't do white font in main show threads. Again. Show's over. There were a handful of episodes and we have three threads for the sucker. I say this as someone who wrote to FOX, badgered friends and family into watching, and cried when Serenity bowed. Ask Kiba to delete any/all Buffista links at her Firefly site(s).
Bang. 1 more thread gone.
Total gone: 9
(I say 1 more gone, because I already hypothetically killed off FF Quotables.)

How will this help? It'll help cut down the natter that happens in every thread that exists. Yes, the Natter thread is a bigger beast, but it's part of our identity. Let's cut off our moles, not our limbs. Ditching these ad hoc threads will help cut down on the number of small, individual posts. So I won't be talking to Plei about Buffy's perfection in her imperfection as hero in Quotables, Spoilers lite, Previously, Spoilers, and the main show thread. I'll have to confine my conversation to fewer threads. I'll live.

cc: Kat

edited to add - In addition to the ten cuts I've suggested, I wanted to add that I'm completely on board with these suggestions by Kat, that I failed to mention (and I failed to mention them, because I'm completely on board with them)

1. The Buffista Corp thread gets closed. Bless its Cafe Press heart.

2. At some point, post-death match that the Buffy quotable thread be closed.

4. Change ita's username to adorable fluffy bo-bita.

5. Due South, Smallville and perhaps Farscape will be consolidated in some way.

I think we should just create a Due South/Smallville/Farscape thread. Don't call it "Fannish TV" or "genre TV". Call it by its name, and clearly state its purpose in the thread slug, so that people won't assume it's a general tv thread.

6. Buffy Spoilers Lite will be closed.

7. Change the name of the Buffy/Angel Spoilers thread to "Angel Spoilers"

2. What other non show related threads could we trim?

Sang Sacre? Yeah, I know it's slow. But so why have it? We can post that stuff in Natter, Bitches, etc.

3. Is there any more room to consolidate within the show threads?

Other than what I suggested up top, I'm not sure. But, could we only have F2F open on a seasonal basis? In other words, only have it open while the planning is going on, through a couple of weeks after the event? Seems like it could be another haven for hidden natter. People can announce their mini-F2Fs in Press, and discuss via email.

Also? I love the LotR thread. I lurk there, even when I have nothing new to add. But I do think it could be added to movies, even if/when the TTT DVDs come out and RotK is released, provided we wouldn't have to spoiler font stuff.

* [added in edit] I struck my suggestion to combine the "Fan Fiction" thread with all the other fan fic threads, per Dana's reminder that the Fan Fiction thread is work safe, where the others are not.

You created or proposed the original natter thread. Since it's inception, there has been way more natter there.

This is not accurate.

I suggested it, because quite frankly it was driving me batty to look through 250 posts on paint and physics to find three posts on Buffy. People effectively said boo, hiss, shut up newbie (okay, it was a bit nicer, but the tone wasn't that far off). I took a step back and kept a low profile for the next several weeks. The Natter thread got started while I was not really reading or posting all that much, and I have no idea who brought the idea up again and had the social capital to actually get it through.

As for the rest of it ... I'm kind of out of opinions. I feel like this is really a technical problem, and trying to solve it through community-wide discussion is not the most productive way. I know there are other communities out there that are chattier than we are, and I wonder if it would be possible for our developers and their developers to figure out why we're having so many problems.

Edit: The only one of Cindy's suggestions I have a problem with is combining TT with movies, because I'm anti-Hobbit. But if it's the best thing to do, I would live. Likewise, I'd miss the bitchy fic/Fanfiction distinction, but I would survive.

We should keep Sang Sacre open as housing for people exiled from Bitches and Natter.

Sang Sacre is not even remotely a Bitches/Natter substitute.

Ok, some excellent ideas there Cindy. A few comments:

5. Due South, Smallville and perhaps Farscape will be consolidated in some way.

I think we should just create a Due South/Smallville/Farscape thread. Don't call it "Fannish TV" or "genre TV". Call it by its name, and clearly state its purpose in the thread slug, so that people won't assume it's a general tv thread.

Someone suggested above that Firefly and Farscape might make a good fit - that seems a great idea to me, if the Farscapers agree. Instead of merging DS/SV/F into one, I'd like to consider whether Farscape could be added to Firefly without causing problems. That still leaves DS and SV - I'm still leery of changing those, especially as SV gears up for a new season, but it would be less disruptive, and less likely to devolve into a Gen TV thread than merging the three into one.

I'm willing to absent myself from the Firefly threads until I get my hands on the DVDs sometime down the line if it means we can go back to one thread there.

When (if?) the deathmatches finish, it's been suggested a few times already that the Buffy quotables thread close. Elena's dropping them for two weeks already while she's away. This should hopefully give us the time to see how big a contributer they might have been before deciding to resume. At any rate, we should be more than able to finish them in Sept., well before the new Angel season begins. So if we can, I'd rather let that thread come to it's natural end than chop it off now. But if it's a big deal then go for it.

That leaves Angel and FF. I think most of us could live with closing FF - though it would be nice to be able to reopen it somewhere down the line for its own closing deathmatch, once everyone is up to date. As for Angel, if we can keep it open during the season I think we should - though that's one place where we can stomp on the natter a little bit harder.

I'm not sure folding LOTR into movies at this point is wise. I went into more detail on why last night.

On the fic threads, I think there's a useful distinction to be kept between the threads where people post fic and where they talk about it. If we could cut it down to two threads, though, that would seem to be plenty.

We should keep Sang Sacre open as housing for people exiled from Bitches and Natter.

Sang Sacre is not even remotely a Bitches/Natter substitute.

And we're not going to shut Bitches and Natter? Right? Anyhow?

Someone suggested above that Firefly and Farscape might make a good fit - that seems a great idea to me, if the Farscapers agree.

Er....oh god please nonononono. (I might be the only one who feels that way, in which case, combine away, but....)

Someone suggested above that Firefly and Farscape might make a good fit - that seems a great idea to me, if the Farscapers agree.

Er....oh god please nonononono. (I might be the only one who feels that way, in which case, combine away, but....)

Heh. SO with Jess on this, but I'll certainly live if the two are combined.