Someone mentioned over at the Bureaucracy that more of the unspoiled would speak out, so here I am. Frankly, I don't understand why this discussion had to have gotten so freakin' heated. This is all very alarming.

I haven't read *all* the posts, but I think I got the gist. The spoiled want to talk about BCS with more freedom and are concerned about the undiscussed-drift of the board into stronger spoilerphobicity, and the unspoiled are worried about policy changes and slippery slopes. Speaking as a relative spoiler-phobe, I was pretty freaking pissed when I was spoiled about BCS#1 (not here), a.k.a. Elephant in the room, because it was sprung on me without consideration even before the finales for both shows aired, which totally colored my expectation of the finales. Afterwards, I got spoiled for the BCS #2 and 3 here, because after the finales aired, I got curious about BCS#1 and ventured into the Spoiler Lite, and told myself, "what the hell" and highlighted the whitefonts about those. But really, these three casting spoilers are all I know. I don't want to know anything about future plotty things at all. And I imagine there are quite a few people here who are in the same position as I am.

Speaking only for myself;

1) I like the board's rather stringent spoiler policy in principle--it's a nice safe haven, since I unsubbed from most of the discussion lists I used to be on after being carelessly spoiled about one thing or another onlist. However, I can understand how a request for 'emergency whitefont!' on something that is not really a spoiler would bother the author of the said post. For example, Nutty's story about someone asking stompies to whitefont a LOTR plotline in Natter sounds highly unreasonable. Perhaps, when we are talking about anything other than very obvious show spoilers, a dialog can be made in-thread to clarify the nature of the said post before someone runs to stompies crying, "Kill the spoiler! Kill it! Kill it!".

2) However, I *would* like to discuss Angel S5 speculations somewhere, because it's really difficult to do it in the main thread without mentioning the casting spoilers, and I don't want to venture into the spoiler thread or elsewhere that is not the Buffistasland where I may be opening myself to further spoilage. I don't know why we can't refashion the Angel Spoiler Lite (much like the way we refashioned the Firefly Spoilers) so that the main discussion/speculations with the knowledge of casting spoilers can occur there. We can decide to do so freely without whitefonting the said main casting spoilers (or anti-spoilers), with a request for the spoiled not to unleash any plot-related stuff or other, more minor casting spoiler information for the duration of the summer.

3) When the push comes to shove, I personally don't really care that much if the BCS-related discussions happen on the main-thread, being spoiled on those already, but it looks like several Buffistas who are more virginal than I would be very unhappy if this happpened. I want to pick a way that makes the least people very unhappy. As one of the wee-bit-spoiled folks who have been feeling a bit pinched about not having a place to discuss the BCS, I would be perfectly happy adopting Spoiler Lite as the default Angel discussion thread for the summer, provided other people like me want to come over and play.

Cindy, the difference is that if you know something and can't discuss it that inhibts the discussion but you can still discuss. Dialing down isn't optimum but you can still play.

That's true, insofar as there's something left to talk about. Please remind me, because I can't remember after all this talk, do you, Elena and other very unspoiled posters you know vacate NAFDA when the promos start rolling, or do you typically let yourselves know the information at that point.

Regardless, at some point people run out of conversation. And it may not be technically impossible to speculate about those elements for which you're still unspoiled, but knowing there are three cast changes is going to make what people *aren't* saying, as plain as what they are saying. If nobody (of those you know for certain is spoiled) speculates on the fates of characters A, B, and C, isn't that going to make you suspicious that A, B, and C are no longer on the canvas?

If Jim hasn't run away and changed his name, I'll mention this again to him again, but, I think summer rules (should they pass) should build in ample time in which a NAFDA show thread is still casting news free. I don't want to see people chased out the day of the finale, just because the network makes their renewal and cast announcements that day.

That's true, insofar as there's something left to talk about. Please remind me, because I can't remember after all this talk, do you, Elena and other very unspoiled posters you know vacate NAFDA when the promos start rolling, or do you typically let yourselves know the information at that point.

I do, or did in summers past.

If Jim hasn't run away and changed his name, I'll mention this again to him again, but, I think summer rules (should they pass) should build in ample time in which a NAFDA show thread is still casting news free. I don't want to see people chased out the day of the finale, just because the network makes their renewal and cast announcements that day.

I like that suggestion.

What Vonnie said. This makes perfect sense to me. fwiw.

What Vonnie said. This makes perfect sense to me. fwiw.

Cindy, the difference is that if you know something and can't discuss it that inhibts the discussion but you can still discuss.

Yes I can discuss it, IRL with friends. I just have nowhere on the board to discuss it.

I'm another plot-spoiler-phobe who likes to know summer casting changes. I rarely post in show threads, and I'm way behind in the Angel thread, so my discussion is not being inhibited. However, I also feel like we used to talk about these things in the show threads.

I like that suggestion.

Thanks. I made it yesterday too, but probably too far down in a too long post.

Say this proposal does passes, and say Jim agrees to build in some safety time for a season post-mortem. How long is good.

Does anyone know:

When are shows typically renewed (Angel was renewed very late this year, I remember, but not how late).?

When are cast line ups typically announced?

How long before our post-mortems usually wrap up?

The upfront presentations are usually around mid-May. The 15th is a good estimate. [That's when FBC's was this year.]

Cindy, as I recall, renewals for shows are usually announced in the spring, usually through March and April. I'm pretty sure, however, that Fox announced the several-season renewal of The Simpsons as early as January.

Casting announcements don't always come with renewal notices, though. A lot of that comes out of the network up-fronts, which are done in late May.

Of course, further cast changes can be made later in the off-season, after the up-fronts. As an example, key members of The Practice appeared at the ABC up-front only to find a week or so later they were losing their jobs.

Would somebody in the industry please correct me if I'm wrong?