I mean now. I can only go by now. For all I know, by morning a much more satisfactory compromise will have been worked out, but right now, I am not seeing any possible compromise being granted.

Well, in that case you'd be right not to. It is a spoiler by our current rules. It is also an issue where it's reasonable to consider whether it should be an exception.

But as far as changing our definition of a spoiler - well, there's the problem. Some people do consider casting news to be a spoiler, some don't. Saying that allowing free dissemination of casting news, even over the summer, doesn't change our definition of a spoiler is incorrect.

I do think that the current proposal violates the grandfathering that we just voted in. I don't think it should be voted on. That doesn't mean I don't think we have things to discuss.

Can we come to some agreement on the current BCS without dragging in all the other actual or potential casting spoilers? Without changing our established policy to respond to (what I think is) a one-time situation that will resolve itself anyway in a month's time? I don't want discussion to be stifled, I don't want people to feel pushed aside. I also don't want to lose the sense of courtesy that has guided our actions in the past.

Burrell, I thought that the proposal was to change our spoiler policy.

This indicates to me that we are reading the proposal very differently.

Well, if it's tabled it's time to close the thread and I'll move on with my life and try to forget the Ashcroft crack.

Did I call you Ashcroft? No.

Do I feel extreme fear has taken over where it hadn't before? Yes.

Tabled doesn't mean the same thing everywhere. Like I said, insect reflection.

This is why I'm getting pissed off. I mean, what's the argument here - that the vote shouldn't happen? Because that's the vibe I've been getting and that's what's pissing me off.

Point the first - this thread exists so we can discuss these things before they come to a vote.

Point the second - brenda brought up, and ita and Trudy (I think) said 'hmm', that this vote may in fact be an unvoteable issue under Betsy's grandfather policy that was voted in previously. It's not to shut down discussion - it's a point of policy that needs to be resolved.

I don't think it's up to Jim to table the discussion. If the rule existed before the grandfathering date it's tabled until September 20th.

Also, this is what I meant about the Supremes taking over (unless I deleted that remark as too inflammatory, but I no longer consider it so), and I don't think it is REMOTELY in the spirit of the rule, even if it somehow, by calander time, is in the letter.

Can we come to some agreement on the current BCS without dragging in all the other actual or potential casting spoilers? Without changing our established policy to respond to (what I think is) a one-time situation that will resolve itself anyway in a month's time? I don't want discussion to be stifled, I don't want people to feel pushed aside. I also don't want to lose the sense of courtesy that has guided our actions in the past.

Brenda, I've been trying. I really have been trying to see if we can come to some kind of an agreement on the BCS.

Saying that allowing free dissemination of casting news

This isn't how I read the text of the proposal. It puts very clear limits on what kinds of casting news could be considered open for discussion. As with Elena, here is the point at which you and I are clearly reading the proposal very differently.

Ken, the spirit of the rule is that we don't pick apart old policy until September 20th. 84% of voters agreed to that.

Also, this is what I meant about the Supremes taking over (unless I deleted that remark as too inflammatory, but I no longer do), and I don't think it is REMOTELY in the spirit of the rule, even if it somehow, by calander time, is in the letter.

Ken, we do not have a Supreme Court, if by that you mean a small group of people that ultimately overrule the will of the people. The will of the people - 84% of the people - was that policy decisions made before voting came in were not eligible for changing through further votes until September 20th.

Brenda, I've been trying. I really have been trying to see if we can come to some kind of an agreement on the BCS.

Elena, the problem is it goes beyond the BCS and to a big sore spot for a number of posters.