Ok again - somethiing I can't prove but:

Gar, we really have no idea about the kind of percentages we're looking at here.

OK now I can't expect those opposed to the proposal to accept the above four premises.

Why should anyone accept them? Where is the basis in fact for them?

But I hope it is easy to see that support for it does follow from them, and that they are not obviously irrational or self-evidently wrong.

Um. Huh?

2)A really tiny minority will be bothered by the passage of this proposal.

I think it's important to point out that in this instance, although hopefully not in future instances, even most of that really tiny minority is already spoiled.

I'm being abstract because we're not voting to take the covers off this one elephant in this one room. If we tailor the discussion too tightly about this one thing, then we are just making an exception.

Agreed, but we're still voting only on off-season changes to the regular contracted cast. Still, I agree with your principle, here.

I think it's important to point out that in this instance, although hopefully not in future instances, even most of that really tiny minority is already spoiled.

Really? If you're talking about this thread - yes, that's true. If you're talking about the board in general - do we really have any idea how many people know the information? Who knows what?

I just read through the post Season 5 discussion of SMG's return and it actually did seem to be an exception based on the inevitability of knowing and also because there seemed to be a conspiracy theory that Buffy dying was some weird Jossian Fuck You to the WB and the contract stuff was all false.

It was brought up and talked about with no objections that I could see, with the main thought being "Joss wants us to know this". I am not sure if this helps.

I also saw Burrell's first post!

Elena, before I even comtemplate your last question, I'm still looking for an answer to this:

What value is there to forbidding printed and electronic between-season contracted-regulars casting promos, when we don't forbid televised between-season contracted-regulars casting promos?

I am right behind, in front of, next to you, in that plot spoilers (even if they're in the media or on the WB's site) should not be discussed in NAFDA - not even in white font. Ditto for casting spoilers during the season.

The reason I am not with you on the between-season, contracted-regulars casting promos, is because the WB will televise promos with the cast, and even if they don't, when the title credits run, who is and isn't a contracted regular will be made clear to everyone. People are not going to get their HSQ moment from credits, are they? And if so, if that's what we're protecting, I think it's frivolous.

Really? If you're talking about this thread - yes, that's true. If you're talking about the board in general - do we really have any idea how many people know the information? Who knows what?

I think this is why we're voting - to find out.

I'ma just let Cindy speak for me from now on.

I do think we have to remember this effects ONLY credit characters and ONLY summer (I think)

If you're talking about the board in general - do we really have any idea how many people know the information? Who knows what?

That's getting really close to the "all the lurkers agree with me!" argument. Obviously, we can't know what people who don't say anything know, think, feel or believe.

We *can* make an educated guess that if (pulling numbers out of my ass) 48 people have posted implying that they know the casting news, and two have posted implying that they do not, 96% of all active board members know the casting news. Anyone feel like counting posters?

I'd really like to return to this point that Cindy made:

What value is there to forbidding printed and electronic promos, when we don't forbid televised promos?

It bothers me that this discussion has turned into a thinly veiled fight about one particular spoiler, and what percentage of currently-active Buffistas know it, and which specific threads people will and won't avoid and so on. Because there's a much more general principle that gets ignored every time we devolve into that.

Allowing other network-authored promos is a logical extension of allowing aired promos. The network is advertising something. Therefore, it's officially Out There. And that's different, and very easily distinguished, from someone's con report or newspaper interview or whatever.