Okay, backing up: I know we had a discussion where we decided on spoiler rules. I think it was post-Giles-leaving - either on WX or when we moved here. Does anyone remember when that was? Because if we can track down what we agreed to, maybe we can figure out why people have different memories of what "generally agreed-to" means.

It's entirely possible that we used the word "spoiler" and didn't realize that people would have different definitions of that, of course.

(And on that note, I'm off to an hour-and-a-half meeting which, frankly, I'd rather be discussing spoiler policy minutiae. See y'all later.)

AH being in American Wedding. SMG being in Scooby Doo.

I don't think a movie deal is comparable to someone signing on for another series. (Yes, the one recent incident was not a series, but a movie, and by itself would not be spoilery. The write-up unfortunately muddied the waters there by giving the wrong impression. But the intro to the description was.)

The other cast member project that was singled out also wouldn't have raised hackles if people hadn't already been careless about leaving broad hints in the non-Spoiler threads. In that context, I call it a spoiler.

The Buffy coming back thing - I think that fits the definition of something so extreme it couldn't be avoided (though I did know non-Buffista Buffy watchers who weren't sure). And yes, Joss was all over the media on that one - because the combination of that event and the move to another network meant that keeping quiet risked losing a good chunk of the audience. The Giles thing, I do wish hadn't been discussed, but I don't think it was a change of the magnitude of a major character joining or leaving the show with no in-show lead up.

But in both cases, just because we decided to discuss them doesn't mean they weren't actually spoilers by our own stated definition. People just didn't object because the one was so extreme and the other comparatively minor.

Jess [to pluck a name out of the hat], what do you gain by having the news no longer a spoiler?

Not having my blood boil every time things like Dan's post get deleted.

And I meant it when I said I can't tell, under current spoiler rules, when that kind of thing would cease to be spoilery. When the TV movie airs? When promos for it air? And if it's not on the WB, would the promos themselves be considered spoilers?

Elena, if your expectations for S5 turn out to be wrong, will you still consider yourself to have been spoiled?

It's entirely possible that we used the word "spoiler" and didn't realize that people would have different definitions of that, of course.

I think so. I think it's really likely.

I am startled by the impression that "everyone knows", and even more startled that I was asked how I knew everyone didn't know.

Has that come into this particular branch of this discussion, or is that from a while ago, back in the spoiler thread? I ask, because I'm pretty sure I vented that I bet everyone knew. If that's the comment to which you are referring, I was being venty and hyperbolic, not literal.

I can tell you that I think exactly what Katie whitefonted. And it's the most likely explanation.

I disagree. I don't think CC will be in 22 episodes, but I *do* think she'll show up so they can resolve her storyline, simply b/c the character has been too big a part of the series and the Buffyverse to leave her hanging indefinitely. It could be one episode where the character dies and CC appears only as a corpse, or twelve where she wakes up and snarks the hell out of everyone before passing her visions on to Wesley and taking off to NYC; I don't know which, and I'm not even sure if ME staff do right now. Either way, it has nothing to do with the actor's project that was mentioned here earlier, since that was probably filmed some time ago.

It's been our definition of spoiler since we were on WX, agreed upon by the people who have been members of our community as we were building it.

I think this is where the anger is coming from because obviously there are a number of people who do not believe there was EVER any agreement on this issue w/r/t main credits casting issues (I'm not even going to call them spoilers).

ita - the reason we want to discuss stuff that (for most of us) is not a spoiler is that it intergrates with the other discussion. For example, if there was a NAFTA 24 thread on the board, and it was widely known that Depp was joining the cast, then it would be very frustrating to discuss what next seasons 24 was going to be like without mentioning this. And the vast majority of people, including otherwise unspoiled people, would not be able to take part in Depp discussions, because they would not want to converse in the hard core spoiler thread, and might not want to take part in spoilers light thread, because they would not want to hear other spoiling casters that were not new permanent additions to the show.

I don't think a movie deal is comparable to someone signing on for another series.

This is part of what confuses me. In the incident in May, I made my wishful thinking post, in part, because I assumed that because it had been openly discussed that Actor X had a series, certainly my statements couldn't spoil anything.

I was corrected and told that because Actor X has a series, it does not rule him out for roles on A:ts, but my comments did rule him out. Now I'm being told that discussing that someone has a series is against the rules, because it does rule him out.

Which is it?

Jess, can you explain to me why it makes you angry? I was startled, because at first I thought it detailed a casting change, and then I realised it was just a poorly written article.

Admittedly, I didn't real the whole thing, because I'm big with the not caring, but was it explicit about casting news? And you're mad he couldn't link to explicit news? Because ... people do do that, caveated, all the time.

it intergrates with the other discussion

I guess I'm terribly slanted by my own huge disinterest, and after seeing how quickly it fizzled out in Spoilers.

Which isn't to say that your frustration is moot, but you didn't talk about how you feel your frustration balances against the people who are hard core averse.