Speaking as an avowed Virgin who was spoiled RIGHT HERE on this let me please say the following:

1) It is NOT THAT HARD TO STAY PURE. I skip articles. I don't go on the WB site (which has, if you recall, posted spoilers that annoyed Tim). I don't work in the industry, live in LA or have a husband who writes for TV Guide.

(and back there somewhere Dan, I think, mentioned a casting spoiler 2-- I have NO IDEA what this is and would rather stay that way as long as possible)

2) I feel that the proposed change in policy WOULD be a slippery slope. As it is our currently clear "unless aired on show or promo" is periodically messed up. Can I tell my media hound brethren that the cries of "Hey, that casting spoiler wasn't for an opening credit character! It was released by an unnamed source and not a staff writer! Someone get a Stompy! White font! White font! won't do any good once I've read the darn thing? That the rules are confusing to a non-media hound?

The way I see it, the Virgins will have to pretty much leave the show threads to stay pure whereas the semi-spoiled HAVE a thread. Maybe we should have a Virgin thread? We could have the Spoiled, Semi-Spoiled, Normal (now more spoiled than previously) and Virgin threads.

3) What happens to Natter? Would I need to avoid it too? If David Hasselhoff joining the cast of Angel isn't a spoiler it shouldn't bother the unamericans either, right?

I don't want to have to go into Lite to talk about the 2 things I know, because I know there are casting things I don't know (and don't want to know, not for the HSQ, but because I don't want to be thinking about it until it happens, if that makes sense. I want to re-interpret, rather than project forward).

Now extend that feeling to include the two things you know and you'll see how I and a handful of others feel.

One of you spoiled me on one of those things. I'm still clean on the other and REALLY want to stay that way.

Wow.

Well, let me speak for the unspoiled. I have no idea what your casting spoilers are, and I have no desire to know. I will stay in whatever thread I have to in order to avoid knowing. I'm shy of Pinwiz-level spoiler purity, but I'm evidently right up there, because I don't know. And it's not that hard. I haven't made any particular effort. I pick up magazines from time to time, I pay attention to media, and I don't know. I don't get the show channels, but that's not strictly relevant here because the revealing promos haven't aired.

I know Plei says to the contrary, but I really thought this sort of thing was what Spoilage Lite was created for. I didn't know about (s7) Faith, and was subsequently happily shocked. While when I thought back on it, it seemed fairly possible, I hadn't speculated about it, so it was still impactful. I did know about ASH leaving, but I knew from here, and I didn't like knowing.

I would be happier if real life never interfered with my fictional worldview.

Knowing means I have to think about the actors and the world of film during the show, instead of being engaged by the story. It suspends my suspension of disbelief.

So it may be clear that I oppose the proposed change. However, that said, I am not going to oppose it. I am not active in the thread live-time. I follow, but I follow according to my watch and/or read schedule. So in the end, it doesn't matter worth crap to me personally, I'll just know to read up until July and then stop.

The important thing is that if it is driving people bonkers, then by all means, let's unbonker them. My enjoyment of the boards is not going to be lessened by more than your enjoyment of the boards is going to increase. We all want the board to be a place we like to be, and not a place of frustration. That goes for both ways, because if we do end up having problems with the distinctions, I can see a lot of potentially negative change. The reason we have done things the way we have is because we want to be courteous to each other, and not to hamper each other's viewing styles. That's the reason we avoided spoilers in the first place, and that's the reason why we have a spoiler thread. There's no need to alienate the spoiler virgins or the spoiler whores. So let's try to be thoughtful, let's make the best decision we can.

I know Plei says to the contrary, but I really thought this sort of thing was what Spoilage Lite was created for.

The S7 thing you mentioned (which I think is safe to mention, as some of OZ got Chosen this week) *is* what SL was created for.

This proposal ONLY covers changes to the regular (not recurring, defined as being the peeps in the opening credits) cast between seasons. Like, say, ASH no longer being a regular, or JAR and Amy Acker becoming regulars.

If CC had left at the end of S3, when she was Higher Beinged, that would, by this proposal, not have been considered a spoiler.

Riley leaving on a jet plane, pity we now know when he'd be back again? Still a spoiler.

AB in the credits for SR? Again. Spoiler.

Glenn Quinn leaving/AD coming on? Spoiler.

The cast of AtS S1 starting off as DB, GQ, and CC? Not a spoiler.

Okay, I wasn't sure.

I think I follow all the distinctions, I just worry that not everyone will, and since we compare spoilerhood to sex, it's just not that easy to go back once you know. You're either spoiled or you're not. The only question is whether you wanted to be or not. When I look at your list, I would not want to know any of those things. I did know about half of them, and didn't like it. Just the spoilerphobe viewpoint.

The thing about things like casting changes between seasons is that, as I've mentioned, those will stop being spoilers before the first episode of the season airs, so it's sort of like putting off the wedding night after the ceremony, and if I extend that simile, I'm going to get in trouble.

Heheh. Yeah, it's true. The thing about that is the potential to later go, "Oh, but I thought it would air in promos and it never did" about other, more nefarious changes. The nice thing about airdate marking spoilerhood is that it's concrete. Easily identifiable.

But I trust the Buffistas. I'm sure we're capable of damming the flow if it becomes a problem. Which I don't think it is, now, or will necessarily be if the proposal goes in. So it's cool.

The nice thing about airdate marking spoilerhood is that it's concrete. Easily identifiable.

I really think this is key.

It's not a slippery slope. It's a summer-only policy, only for regular cast members. It's a fairly simple matter.

I'd be happy with a proposal saying "The Angel casting changes, having been announced by the WB, are not spoilers," but other people who are more positive that there will be a S6 than I am, want a more general proposal, so I'm fine with that too.

When I look at your list, I would not want to know any of those things.

I'm glad someone finally said this outright, because (and not to pick on you at all, Liese) I just can't understand it. Take, for example, JAR becoming a regular. To remain unspoiled for that, one would have to A) avoid the opening credit sequence entirely, and B) require everyone else not to mention the fact that JAR is in that sequence--because being a regular character isn't something that gets a HSQ moment, or is even likely to be slipped into dialogue. Either the show spoils you, or impossible demands are placed on everyone else to not mention it indefinitely.

If one wants only to be unspoiled for it until the season starts, it only makes sense if one wants to be thrilled by seeing if the name shows up in the credit sequence--and since that has nothing to do with the meat of the show itself, I don't think one can call that a spoiler at all.

I can understand anything with more mystery behind it than that; there's going to be some chance of HSQ. I don't think that any chance at all should be enough to make something a spoiler, but I do understand why others feel that way.