I already get that the Big Casting Spoiler will be all that people talk about by September or sooner, (respectfully Lyra Jane, I don't just mean the spoiler, I mean The Spoiler),

Not sure I understand this.

What I said was that people have known for two months now, we've been talking about it in Spoilers and Spoilage light, and it's *not* the only topic of discussion. That could change if it was in the main threads, but it would kinda surprise me.

Just to raise another concern/point of discussion - what about Angel coming back season 3 of Buffy? Does anyone remember if that was discussed during the summer leading up? That would be back in the TT days, so my recall is dim. I know I knew, I think because A:tS had already been announced. But seeing how they played Angel for the first several episodes of Buffy season 3, there was no reason to assume he was actually coming back physically.

My worry about this is, that if a major character death occurs -- I want that to be a surprise.

I mean -- Doyle died - - did we all know that was going to happen?

I agree that there is a big difference between in-season casting changes and between season casting changes.

Maybe I'm missing the issue, but I don't understand why our original definition isn't holding here. If it hasn't been aired, (which includes promos), it's a spoiler. The fact that most people know about it isn't relevant. I was spoiled by some inconsiderate asshole, but if it hadn't been for that one person, I wouldn't know about it, because I'm avoiding all other spoilers. I'd be upset if it was suddenly talked about.

some people think that casting spoilers aren't really spoilers but in the current instance, the fact that Spike has been cast for Angel is a HUGE spoiler, because he died on Buffy, see what I mean?

Also, I think that some people might accidentally reveal too much information. Someone made a good point about "Xander coming back to fix Cordelia," etc, but I say that it's a slippery slope!! :)

I mean, isn't this why we have Spoiler Lite?

signed,

Complete and total spoilerphobe, and has and will cussed folks out for spoiling me

I don't understand why our original definition isn't holding here.

Our original definition holds and has been holding. We're discussing whether it's worth changing that definition.

Vortex - We know that at some point before the season starts, the Big Casting Spoiler ™ is going to appear in a promo. What difference then does it make if we start talking about it publicly now?

I have mixed feelings. Part of the fun of the off-season for me is speculation about the upcoming season, and a lot of us can't really have that kind of fun without referring to The Spoiler and/or The Other Spoiler. One answer is to keep spectulation to the spoiler threads.

I am not a spoiler companion, and when I tried to be I felt guilty, so I stopped. So I don't want to play in Spoilers or Lite, because I really don't want to be more spoiled than I already am. Also, I didn't go looking for these spoilers, they just fell in my lap with renewal annoucement.

Certain spoilers are just going to be everywhere, but not all of them reach elephant-in-the-room proportions. I don't think the "Faith returns" spoiler became elephant-sized. I think the "SMG leaving" very quickly became elephant-sized, and it would have become very frustrating (to me) if somebody hadn't taken the intiative to proclaim it fact, not spoiler.

Bottom line, for me, is that I would like to allow discussion about the elephants that are already in the room, but I would like to limit other casting spoilers until they become elephants in the room.

YElephantMV.

I think if Joss is talking about it to the press at large it should not be considered a spoiler because he would never spoil a plot point - but that's just me.

(But what I really want to know - is how did you do that superscript thing Jon?)

I can see Vortex's viewpoint on this. Spoilage Lite was created to discuss casting spoilers by those who couldn't bear to go whole hog. (It was a R*ley returns spoiler that sparked it, IIRC.) That was the whole point of Spoilage Lite.

Then again, I can see that the definition of "spoiler" has grown a lot in the past two years. Everybody knew Giles was going off-contract after S5, right? Everybody knew Buffy would come back from the dead after S5. Everybody knew that Gunn, and then Fred, would be getting contracts. I don't know why that is/isn't in the opening credits stuff is spoily now, when it didn't used to be.

Then again again, knowing [positive casting spoiler] changed how I saw events in the Jossverse, and if I'd known it before the events occurred, I would have been irritated at that knowledge. So I'm glad I found out only after the seasons were over. [Negative casting spoiler] makes no never mind to me one way or the other, because having a contract != not dying a horrible death.

Vortex, this possible spoiler is being promoted by the WB (posters and web site so far, probably in promos late summer), Joss, any given interview. I don't think they have any interest in anyone getting to October 8th without knowing.

I think the urge to change is that this restriction gets more and more artificial, because we are fighting so much.

And in that case, what's the difference between knowing now, and knowing October 7th?

Vortex, I think this is a proposal to expand the definition of spoiler (or technically, what isn't a spoiler), not make an exception to it. If this passes a major cast change that has been announced by ME through mass media means (and what constitutes mass media is one of the things being hashed out here, I think) will no longer be considered a spoiler any where on these boards.

x-posted, naturally.