I'm against it too. But some people are less tough, or bloodyminded, or defiant than others, and if they need to talk it through, I say let them. It may help.

Especially as we do have the E-mail Admins link. Which is handy and wonderful and good.

Yes-- however, this discussion has cleared up for me the usage of this link. i really though the choice was to complain in Bureacracy or don't bring it up.

I think we've got several subjects converging here, and it's muddying things.

The original proposal is just about restricting certain to-be-determined threads to registered users only.

Cindy's concern, that raising the issue of someone's behaviour in B'cy resulted in her receiving nasty emails from the poster concerned, is really a separate issue. For one thing, the current proposal wouldn't touch this situation.

It seems like we might be agreeing that an email to the admins at the admin address would be acceptable if someone felt uncomfortable bringing something up in thread. Maybe we can add a mention of this somewhere, perhaps with the reminder that our greatly preferred course of action is to deal with things on-board, in the manner we voted on. If you felt you absolutely could not do this, then a stompy might take the text of your email and post it w/o your name, but it would be considered an exception to the usual way of doing things.

In terms of the other situation that came up, lurkers, maybe unregistered, emailing stompies with complaints and/or threats, I just don't see that there's much we can or should do. Making them register to access certain areas gives us a valid email, true. But we got that when they emailed the stompies, didn't we?

deleted a lot of extraneous stuff...

I'm concerned that people will hesitate to second a warning or suspension or banning request, because they won't want to attract the attention of trolls, and in our efforts to be inclusive to lurkers and therefore not having a sort of official Buffista Back Channel - we'll become troll infested. I'm concerned, because I (who always speak out) no longer plan to second any requests for disciplinary action against bad posters. If I (who always speak out) have been intimidated, then I imagine I'm not the only one.

Is that what we're talking about? We can't prevent that.

No, we can't. Pity, that. (Sounds flip, but I really wish I had the power to reach through the net and Make Them STOP!) I understand the reaction of the people who are a little nervous, because it feels (or did to me) like a violation. That whole false sense of security thing, you see.

Something like that, I'd certainly say report backchannel rather than in thread or here, but it doesn't need a separate user locked thread.

If I'm making sense, which I may not be. (edited for clarity)

Someday, someone might request a suspension or ban, but if enough of us who usually would speak in support, don't, because we don't want to attract personal attention from the troll, then the people who would rather sing kumbayah will sing kumbayah, warn you for using naughty words instead and the troll will stay.

Point taken, Cindy, but I don't think it's likely to happen. This is a board with 900 registered users. We are not a monolith. And regardless of how uncomfortable you may feel about speaking out publicly (and I understand entirely), there are always going to be other Buffistas who will be willing to speak publicly.

If someone offends me, I'm going to say something about it. And if he or she scares me, I'm even more likely to say something about it. I don't use my real name here, I don't say precisely what I do or where I work, and I'm not going to let assholes dictate what I do or don't say online. Fuck 'em.

And I know for sure there are other people here who would respond similarly. I'm not going to be scared into silence by the trolls.

3) It is impossible to prevent trolls from becoming registered users.

These three givens are entirely mutually exclusive.

Unless we do something about 3 - i.e. new screening methods, or we change the requirements of 2 and allow a backchannel forum that not all registered users can access, we won't have a "safe haven" for these discussions.

Does everyone feel that immediate access (registration and response email) is core to the Buffista experience?

Because I don't see any harm in a delayed process. It would cut down on the drive-bys and would ensure that people are certain they want to be registered and participate in this community. Most people seem to be indicating that they lurked for some period of time (both registered and un-) before they put fingers to keyboard.

It's not any sense of security. But it would certainly slow down the genuine trolls. They tend to be about a impatient as they are cheap.

Feeling uncomfortable in a forum one once thought of as a second home is awful. But usually, nothing has changed. It's just our perception of it that's been shaken up.

I can remember finding out that some members of a closed community were saving entire boards, day in day out. That they had a complete copy of everything I had ever said. Now, this was a community that took "said here, stays here" to an absurd level of seriousness. It was the gospel upon which everything else was based. The idea that my words were being immortalised on someone's hard drive was a huge slap in my face. I never posted the same way again. I never will. Sometimes, as ugly as that is, there's just a lesson to be learnt there. And everyone has to learn it.

Forcing registration to view isn't going to solve one iota of a problem that basically boils down to etiquette and respect

well that was just.. odd

It [...] would ensure that people are certain they want to be registered and participate in this community.

Zoe's registered six times so far. Anathema registered at least four. I don't think that a lack of persistence or patience characterised either of them.

(Julie - I think you hiccupped.)

Cindy, I don't think there should be legislation made because you're uncomfortable speaking up.

This is not the bater.