I am also very glad you spoke up in thread, sj. I'm sorry that it got ugly after you did

I like the idea of being able to discuss this subject in a thread where people are engaging of their own accord and are there for a reason. It's not about calling people out--I am very much on board for my own education.

As a society, we have a long way to go to reach equity and why not set aside a space for those kinds of thoughtful, respectful discussions?

My concern on the other hand is that such a thread would have the opposite effect of its intention.

That instead of being a place of reconciliation it would drive people away who felt unfairly targeted, or that this simply isn't what they signed up for in this community.

It is a lot of difficult emotional work to address your own privilege, and while you can require that in a workplace environment, I don't know if that's the remit of this community.

Polter-cow drove people away silently because they didn't want to deal with the emotional labor of parsing his microaggressions or having a confrontation, or dragging it through the community. So people just left.

If this thread is put up then is there an obligation for the person being called out to go there and do what? Defend themselves? Do the walk of shame? The way Glam is positing this thread it sounds like defending your word choice would be automatically dismissed as "doubling down."

I'm not sure that a thread like that would actually foster conversation, but rather be seen as punitive.

There's a reason why (after much discussion) there was a (bullshit?) consensus that handling conflicts in-thread was preferable to formal censure (except in extreme or obvious cases).

The way Glam is positing this thread it sounds like defending your word choice would be automatically dismissed as "doubling down."

If the word chosen was offensive to a minority group? You betcha that's doubling down. I think not having a thread like this will lead to us losing minority members. There is also no comparison between an education thread and the PC situation. I don't want to be in a community that isn't a safe space for minorities. And while typically that isn't this community, it does arise and was not appropriately handled when it did recently. Again, the intent is to raise awareness - not to shame. It's time for all of us to get uncomfortable. It's actually past time.

this simply isn't what they signed up for in this community.

Could you explain what you mean here? We should all speak up when we see -isms of any sort, regardless of where they occur, correct?

I have to say, David, that your comment is pinging me in all kinds of not nice ways. Why should the feelings of the majority be prioritized over the lived experiences of minorities? One is discomfort while the other is safety. There is a difference.

It's time for all of us to get uncomfortable. It's actually past time.

That doesn't allay my concern.

Instead of speaking from a position of moral authority, Glam, perhaps you could talk a bit about the value of this work for you personally. You've alluded to the fact that you've been called out and had to confront your own issues. (As have I, several times, and am willing to address within the context of this discussion if you like. I'm not trying to single you out.)

What were those issues, and what were your lightbulb moments or epiphanies that changed your perspective?

I'm not doing this here right now. We are discussing the creation of a new thread, not my personal experiences with call outs. But I will issue one right now. You are privileged in society in many ways so it feels out of bounds for you to push back against a thread dedicated to minority voices and ask one of those minority voices (me, a lesbian) to educate you. If the thread is created and you choose not to participate, that's your choice.

I have to say, David, that your comment is pinging me in all kinds of not nice ways. Why should the feelings of the majority be prioritized over the lived experiences of minorities? One is discomfort while the other is safety. There is a difference.

I realize I'm pinging you, but I'm not disputing the value of this work. I'm questioning the approach of doing it in a separate thread and what that dynamic would be.

I can't really imagine it being other than censorious, and I think you're fine with that.

To be honest, you're pinging me by treating this like a workshop that you're leading with pre-set parameters instead of discussing it as a community.

Which is why I asked you to relate it to your personal experience, and have offered to do the same.

David, there's nothing in Glam's proposal that suggests this thread would be exclusively or even primarily used as a place to resolve conflicts.

Polter-cow drove people away silently because they didn't want to deal with the emotional labor of parsing his microaggressions or having a confrontation, or dragging it through the community. So people just left.

Isn't this an argument in favor of a dedicated space to raise uncomfortable issues?