Oh, Pacey! You blind idiot. Can't you see she doesn't love you?

Spike ,'Help'


Boxed Set, Vol. VI: I am not a number, I am a free thread!

A topic for the discussion of Doctor Who, Arrow, and The Flash. Beware possible invasions of iZombie, Sleepy Hollow, or pretty much any other "genre" (read: sci fi, superhero, or fantasy) show that captures our fancy. Expect adult content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.

Marvel superheroes are discussed over at the MCU thread.

Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.

Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.

This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.


billytea - Jun 26, 2017 3:34:20 pm PDT #607 of 2020
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

Doctor Who was fantastic. This is the third finale story in a row that was written by Moffat and directed by Rachel Talalay, and they've all been excellent. I think of them all, this episode has done the best job so far of interweaving humour with horror.

I was spoiled for both the Mondasian cybermen and the John Simm Master, because they were both in the BBC season trailer. (Nice one, BBC.) Not that I cared so much, because the creeping body horror around the Cybermen plot was still fantastic (never has a volume control been so chilling), and I still didn't recognise Simm under the makeup until he was stealing up on Missy. Plus, the impact of Bill's conversion wasn't lessened. (My favourite touch - that she had to look up who she was.)

Meanwhile, I am a teensy bit disappointed with the trailer for next week, and only cautiously optimistic about "The Doctor Falls" sticking the landing. Reason being: Mondasian cybermen are awesome. I love the voices; especially in the Tenth Planet, where they just open their mouths and it streams out. The gradual addition of the design elements means they really lingered over it all. And, their last appearance on the screen was over fifty years ago. This is their moment!

But instead, in the trailer we get phalanx after phalanx of the new series Total Robot Cybermen. Which originated in a totally different universe and have zero connection to the Mondasian Cybermen. And are just not as interesting. It's a disappointing bait 'n' switch. Plus, it calls into question why they brought back the Mondasian Cybermen in the first place. I mean, aside from getting the truly tragic classic series fans such as myself to go "Squeee!".

On that last point, this episode, I think, would have to be a rather different experience for a casual viewer compared to a dedicated fan. The less obsessive viewer is going to be far less likely to be spoiled for Mondas or Simm, and will get the full effect from the reveal (especially on the former). But by the same token, I wonder if "It's the Mondasian Cybermen" would mean anything to them. Hell, it's been over seven years since John Simm last dwelt amongst Doctor Who's scenery and hungered for its flesh. There's probably a fair number of casual viewers for whom that reveal was more confusing than anything.

Fortunately, I think this ep was so well crafted that it's cracking entertainment even if you were spoiled for the two interwoven HSQ moments, or if you weren't but didn't have cause to care about them anyway. Caring about Bill is enough for it to work. (This is without even delving into the rather clever conceit of the ship's time distortion, or the utterly bonkers malevolence of the Master's plan to diguise himself as a comedy Igor, befriend Bill without her ever twigging that he's the former Prime Minister, and apparently just chill out with her making truly and hilariously bad tea for a couple of years until finally the time-challenged Doctor looks like he's about to get on with rescuing her.)

Going back to fans vs casual viewers: I do rather love being pandered to with touches like bringing back the Mondasian Cybermen (or the Macra, way back in the third season). Doctor Who is fifty years old and a very fast-and-loose relationship with canon. It has a huge amount of history to mine and a readiness to rework it whenever it makes the current story better (or, frankly, just weirder). I do rather enjoy when it just decides to let its freak flag fly. But if ever the fan service is taken to be the main point, it's going to alienate the casual viewer, and you just don't do that. If ever the interests of die-hard fans and the 'I'll watch it if it's on' crowd conflict, you pander to the latter. They're the ones who keep the show on the air. The show forgot that during the JNT-Eric Saward years, which was a large part of why it got cancelled.

Anyway. Fingers crossed that next week continues the quality of this episode, and does something interesting and unexpected with the Last Temptation of Missy.


billytea - Jun 26, 2017 3:34:20 pm PDT #608 of 2020
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

billytea - Jun 26, 2017 3:56:41 pm PDT #609 of 2020
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

Oh, while I think of it, there's an excellent Doctor Who audio adventure that featured the Mondasian Cybermen, called Spare Parts: [link] Features the Fifth Doctor and Nyssa, also serves as a Genesis of the Cybermen story. It only costs AU$3.00, so if you're looking for a little extra Nicholas-Briggs-does-that-weird-early-Cyberman-voice action, it can be had for a meagre layout.

While I'm at it, I'm also going to push the Sixth Doctor audio adventure, Jubilee: [link] Same price, i.e. a pittance. It was written by Rob Shearman, who very loosely adapted it to become the Ninth Doctor adventure, Dalek. The audio adventure is better. A stone cold classic. Do yourself a favour and grab a copy.


Jessica - Jun 26, 2017 4:49:25 pm PDT #610 of 2020
If I want to become a cloud of bats, does each bat need a separate vaccination?

Fingers crossed that next week continues the quality of this episode, and does something interesting and unexpected with the Last Temptation of Missy.

YES. PLEASE DON'T FUCK THIS UP AUNTIE BEEB.

I am going to miss Capaldi so much.


billytea - Jun 26, 2017 5:04:50 pm PDT #611 of 2020
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

I am going to miss Capaldi so much.

So much this. I tend to think Doctor Who has been well served by pretty much all of the actors who've been given the opportunity to fill the role (even Jim Broadbent) - occasionally for presence and personality more than acting - but even in that group, Capaldi stands out. Ye gods, he's good.


sj - Jun 26, 2017 5:43:41 pm PDT #612 of 2020
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."

I just barely started liking Capaldi, and now I'm going to miss him.


bennett - Jun 27, 2017 9:16:05 am PDT #613 of 2020

I loved Capaldi in Torchwood's Children of Earth season. He can convey so much with just a twitch. But the Doctor is a much more over-the-top character and I've not warmed up to Capaldi's Doctor for some reason.


Dana - Jun 27, 2017 11:42:40 am PDT #614 of 2020
"I'm useless alone." // "We're all useless alone. It's a good thing you're not alone."

I don't know if I love him, but he was for sure a nice break from the increasingly young and floppy-haired Doctors. Now if we can get away from white men...


sj - Jun 27, 2017 5:26:59 pm PDT #615 of 2020
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."

iZombie:

I'm glad they finally mentioned the idea that you can resist the influence of the brain you're on and it's not a free pass for everything you do.

On the whole it seemed like a very boring season, until the last fifteen minutes or so of this episode.


Jon B. - Jun 27, 2017 5:48:10 pm PDT #616 of 2020
A turkey in every toilet -- only in America!

Has iZombie been renewed?