Marvel Universe: Infinite Chrises
Discussion of all Marvel Cinematic Universe related movies and TV shows, including, but not limited to, the Avengers, Captain America, Agent Carter, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Daredevil, Spider-Man, Ant-Man, etc., etc., etc. ad-infinitum.
Discussion of non-MCU Marvel titles like the X-Men or the Fantastic Four is also permitted. Ties to comics may be discussed, but this is not the primary forum for comics discussion (see the Other Media thread).
Spoiler policy: For broadcast TV shows, blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast. For movies and Internet streaming shows, whitefont all plot-related discussion until it's been in wide release two weeks. Posters are encouraged to preface their posts to indicate the subject, particulary if switching subjects.
So, second viewing.
Still, and even more so, in agreement with Steve. Even before Tony fucked up epically on the Wanda front--epically, unilaterally, without her consent--it was made clear that Ross was, and no doubt many like him were, seeing them as weapons first, people second. It's cleverly done: nowhere near as obvious as in the comics, but still there. And here's the thing: if Steve, himself a man made into a weapon, cannot trust the people around him not to see the weapon first and the man second, how the ever loving fuck can he trust people who don't know them as people at all to make that distinction?
And
Oh, Natasha. I cannot articulate my Natasha feelings. Trying so hard to control the situation, knowing when she had to give up that control. It also did feel like they were setting up possible Red Room Winter Soldier history stuff here. Bucky getting his weapons from her locker. The recognition line. The Bucky liking redheads piece.
The whole thing of knowing someone well enough to know when they are telling the truth between Steve and Bucky. Man. And the conversation while he's in the vise. Echos of the conversation with Natasha after Fury's death.
Also
The awkwardness of Steve's friendship with Tony, where they like each other, but don't really know each other. They each massively underestimate the damage of the other and it costs them so much.
Connie, except,
the actor is actually German and his accent not painful.
One thing they did right that Ultron completely missed
was some acknowledgement that Tony gave up the armor but put it back on again, and it caused problems with Pepper. At least the Russos apparently saw the Iron Man movies.
And
Age of Ultron whereas Joss apparently couldn't be bothered to keep up with anyone's films but his own.
Did the guy who did the Winter Soldier music do this music? A lot of Bucky's scenes had that staticky, buzzy Winter Soldier music.
Still
wishing for a road trip movie of Steve, Bucky, and Sam in a VW.
Plei, the difference between
a volunteer team and an assigned team
makes perfect sense.
The fic potential for this movie, with missing scenes and the like, is enormous.
Just saw it. WHAT YOU ALL SAID!!
Sweet preciouses, how do we come back from this?
I cannot with my crush on Steve Rogers. CAN NOT. Jesusita with that guy.
I am super excited about the Black Panther movie, he was super awesomely awesome.
I liked Wanda so much more than in AoU.
OK, really everything more than AoU.
Vision can go suck an egg.
I saw it! The internet is a safe place for me to be again.
Mostly, my thoughts are
poor Steve, poor Tony, poor Bucky.
oh and the camera work almost made me motion sick.
So many thoughts.
and, even above and beyond the human-before-weapon thing, man, the central tragedy of the fragile friendship between Steve and Tony really, really is that Tony just had a hard time seeing past the history and the symbol. It's just. I have a lot of feelings about the humanity of Steve Rogers, okay? That he's a person. A good person, a moral person, but a person, and not without flaws. He's hot-headed, stubborn, loyal to a fault. The thing is, this isn't his dark side Tony gets to see: it's the cornered, frustrated, desperate side. The magazine cover Zola shows in Winter Soldier: the Hero Who Sacrificed Everything. He's still that: if Bucky had been guilty of the UN attack, he'd have brought him in. Hell, that's what he went to do, knowing it wasn't sanctioned and he'd pay for it, still feeling it was his responsibility. But this wasn't that. This was fear and guilt and pain and, finally, just primal, protective rage. And hit up against Tony's loss and grief and pain and rage. Ugh. Stupid phone. This lacks coherence.