But, how do you tell someone that's just getting started in this journey that it's been my whole adult life...that it never goes away...that you can reach a sort of wellness if you work really hard and are really stubborn and change your expectations.

I'm sorry to hear that you can't say those things to her, or that she can't hear those things yet (which is what I think you mean) because if I were the one asking you, that's exactly the kind of honest answer I'd want. I'd want to know what I was up against. I am sure she can see that the road ahead is hard.

You are an amazing woman, vw.

because if I were the one asking you, that's exactly the kind of honest answer I'd want. I'd want to know what I was up against.

Yeah, I'm with burrell. It would be hard to hear, but I'd rather hear that. (I initially typed heart that, which I don't think I'd do!). But I could see how other people definitely wouldn't want to hear that.

Lots of hugs for you, vw. It's tough to know the most helpful things to say.

Thanks, guys. It's actually a huge dialectic. I feel privileged to be able to help in this way...not that it gives meaning to what I've been through, but that I may be able to help someone through a little more easily. On the other hand, I get such a heavy heart when I see people in pain. I actually wish I was the only person experiencing this. For some reason that would be easier to me. Knowing that other people have to go through it makes me so sad.

let them know that you are sad - and that you wish you had a map - right at t he beginning. you have and you are surrving it - so that part is possible. They need hope - but by giving them a glimpse of where you are , wont give them false hope.

you've done a bunch askye - good job ( and stupid ducks)

You definitely need some duck bait to get 'em looking elsewhere, askye.

Good to see you, vw! I don't have any helpful advice, but you are wonderful and brave, and I hope this lady is able to hear what you have to say and gets some help from it.

I don't really know. And I'm speaking to the wife, so it's hard to speak to her needs, because I haven't been there.

but you do know how people close to you were able to help (or not).

I am sick and tired of eating. This "intuitive eating" business wearies me. I have the feeling this sounds humorous, but right now I am so frustrated. Sure it sounds like fun and games when you pay attention to the signals you get from your body to eat what, when and how much... but it's so much work and it never ends. Every three hours this body wants to be fed, and it wants to eat a terrifying amount of food. I'm tired of it. It needs to shut up now. It's had meat, it's had veggies, it's had whole grains, it's had nuts, it's had yogurt, granola bars, coffee, chocolate. It needs to frickin' shut up. I am not feeding it anymore today. I don't care.

Oh em gee, just make it stop clamoring for food.

It doesn't sound humorous, to me. Intuitive eating can scare the crap out of me sometimes. How can I be SURE that what I want is an orange/cookie/turkey burger? Maybe my body is lying? Maybe my body is interpreting the hunger correctly but then my BRAIN is lying and telling me I want cookies when I really want cheese! (Although, of course, I only suspect my body/brain is lying when I want sweets or snacky food. I always believe it when it wants a vegetable.)

And I'm in the rut right now where eating is too much trouble, so I don't eat all day until 4 or 5, and the result is headaches and crankiness and crying and irrationality, because, oh, I'm starving!

IOW, I get where you're coming from. Food is easier when you have self-imposed or external rules (like WW points or low-carb or no fruit after noon or whatever).