Has anyone written an alternative history novel where the newcomers to America didn't wrest land/rights from the Indians? That would be interesting.

I was just reading about the treaty to get safe passage for settlers using the Oregon Trail in exchange for recognition of sovereignty for a bunch of tribes [link] Sounds like more of a good faith negotiation than I expected, given the general historical trend, although that is a pretty low bar.

Eta: I've read a few, Amy, but they all had other elements of fantasy or scifi taht were more of the focus, not just straight up alternate history.

Wow, such a difference from New Zealand, where there were formal treaties signed between the Crown and the Maori. I mean, sure, the Maori still got shafted, but they retained a lot more sovereignty than the Australian natives, and culturally have a great deal of influence on New Zealand.

Very much so. It was also significant, I think, that when the British and the locals went to war in NZ, the British would like as not get their arses handed to them. It helps to be bargaining from a position of strength.

How long did early settler cooperation with the native peoples last? A lot of the colonies would have starved if it weren't for the generosity of their neighbors--irony abounds on that--but did the population pressure of new settlers end that quickly? And my general impression is that Canada wasn't quite as brutal, though I have no real information to back that up.

I got a crash course in the history of the treatment of the Aboriginals in Australia, and the whole in-your-faceness of terra nullius took me aback. I mean, I knew it wasn't shiny happy, as colonizers rarely bring the shiny happy to the natives, but I had not really delved into the details, really.

If you're interested in that question in Massachusetts, Connie, I recommend Nathaniel Philbrick's Mayflower, largely about King Philip's War. In sum: Plymouth Colony started as one new polity in a mosaic of independent groups in the region, and was only able to get started in the first place because of a recent devastating illness (maybe measles) killed off a big chunk of the native population, and Massasoit helped them to benefit himself in inter-group rivalry (new ally! with guns!). Two things eventually caused problems - HUGE waves of immigration after 1640 to the neighboring Mass Bay colony, and more modest growth in Plymouth, caused land pressure. And the first generation of leaders on both sides died off, and the second wave didn't have the longstanding personal relationships that had enabled them to avoid violence after the very early period (in which Myles Standish had been a little bloodthirsty, in part to establish that he was someone to be reckoned with.) So by 1674 things fell apart and you got King Philip's War. And things went to shit for the native peoples of New England at that point.

That's what I was remembering, flea. Almost textbook for communication with civilizations unfamiliar with each other, the succeeding generation doesn't value the setup from the previous generation and screws everything up.

Note that by 1674 the English population of the region was 80,000 and the natives were down to 10,000 total, largely because of disease (accidentally transmitted, because nobody got germs theory at that point).

Eeeeeeee, I have a job interview tomorrow! Well, a "meet and greet" with a staffing company, but they contacted me with a specific temp-to-perm job to come in about. i haven't had a job interview in a very long time. Maybe 2005? Bonkers.

So of course the pressing question is - what do I wear?

Exciting, -t! I always vote suit, but you don't necessarily have to get that dolled up.

largely because of disease (accidentally transmitted, because nobody got germs theory at that point).

Do I recall right that there were no casually transmitted diseases in the Americas until whitey got here?