So, the HR woman at the job I interviewed for and I played phone tag today (I was in transit and my phone did not ring.) This means a job offer, right - HR people not being super-funny about April Fool's pranks?

So when I talk to her tomorrow, I have a big issue to bring up. I have made a verbal commitment to teach a seminar in DC for July 11-18 (which runs mid-week to mid-week.) I will be paid for this, although it's so far outside what the duties of this job would constitute that it could not possibly be seen as a conflict of interest. I also was planning to spend July 1-21 except for the week in DC at the beach in Cape Cod; Casper's enrolled in a 3-week summer school. How and when do I bring this up in general, and specifically, do I just ask for the the seminar, or mention the entire three weeks? I'd be happy to take unpaid leave.

Secondarily, I have never negotiated for salary on a job. Can anyone who has done so tell me exactly how you did it, or point to some good resources for doing so?

On the time off, I think you can do it after you've accepted the job, and say it's already committed. Unless it's a "coverage" kind of job, I've never seen anyone have an issue with that kind of thing. If people will need to cover for you, you could offer to not take the whole three weeks, but I'd lead with that being what you're going to do -- and you're willing to cut it down if they absolutely need you to.

But I do live in a world where people take a month off in the summer, so.

As a hiring manager I would not bat an eye at the week, but three weeks out might be trickier. You need to bring it up before or when you accept the job. A, you don't want them to feel sandbagged, and B, you don't want to accidentally get caught up by existing policies around accumulated vacation, other people's schedules who have more seniority, length of time allowed, etc. iME, they will have a lot more flexibility to bend rules as part of the hiring process than on behalf of a brand new employee.

It is a coverage kind of job - desk shifts and teaching classes - but I would expect that with advance knowledge there are enough people in the coverage rotation (elsewhere I've worked it's nearly 20) that 3 weeks off is not a terrible problem. It might be a problem at an academic library in the busy season (start/end of semesters), but I doubt public libraries are that strongly seasonal.

But I do live in a world where people take a month off in the summer, so.

Heh. In 7 years here I've known one person to take a full month, and to be honest I'm still kind of bitter about the impact on the rest of us and that later in the year our manager gave her some extra time off at Thanksgiving.

Thanks, Brenda, that confirms my instinct, which was sort of that when we start to talk about start dates, I bring it up then. I mean, obviously they would not want to wait until after those 3 weeks, but it seems appropriate to bring up commitments at that point.

flea,

if you get the job offer, I would listen to the HR person's terms first and benefits, etc. see how long you have to think about the offer and then in your next conversation, mention that you had a family vacation planned for July 1-21. You would like to request unpaid leave for those 3 weeks, but you would like to know if there would be a problem with this and what procedures you need to do to request the leave. Can you work the difference (for example, put in an extra 5 hours a week until that time is made up)? I wouldn't bring up the seminar unless you absolutely HAVE to. It isn't their business really.

As far as salary: I usually recommend a counter offer of 10-20% more than the starting offer. In my line of work though, salary is important, but also so is other benefits. So, if my work pays for more of my benefits than I have to put in, I might not push as hard on salary.

I think you also need to get a sense of raises and expected raise schedule and what last year's raises (if there were any) were.

Oh yeah, I'd do it in the conversation where you accept the job for sure.

On negotiating, if you know the range they expect to pay, literally you just have to ask for a number toward the top of the range. They say, "We want to offer you the job, and the salary is XX." You say, "I was looking for something closer to X+Y. Is that possible?" The time off could also be part of that negotiation, if there isn't more money, maybe you could get more time off? (I have heard this exists, but have never actually experienced it myself.)

So your car is playing an April Fools trick on you? Bad manners.

Yes, let's go with that.

I am so used to being in a no-raise environment (at UGA nobody has gotten any raises since I was hired in August 2008 - in fact, one year we had furloughs) that it is hard to imagine! Also, I realize I know almost nothing about librarian rank and longevity of employment contracts in a public library setting (in an academic library there are usually 3-4 ranks to progress through, with associated raises, and tenure or continuing appointment at some institutions.) Must research.