that shit drives me crazy.

oh, they want the roads - they already said that.

I did ask if they thought the military would receive adequate funding if it was only voluntary donations. and tried to pre-empt the attacks by saying MY DAD FOUGHT IN VIETNAM, BITCHES and I HAVE ACTIVE RESERVISTS IN MY FAMILY! but, you know, nicer.

oh, they want the roads - they already said that.

Did you point out that if we only have to fund what WE like, most of your friends would not be funding various American adventures overseas, Guantanamo Bay, or the incredible ever-growing security-industrial complex? And Dick Cheney wouldn't have gotten a new heart on the public dime, either.

TILDA STARDUST

OMG Cheney's insurance is government provided, right?!?

Could you explain that firefighters used to be a subscription service, and if your house was on fire and you hadn't paid them, they'd let it burn?

I doubt that would fly, because of course the people arguing for buffet taxation are sure they'd be paid up for all the things that could ever happen to them.

I have worse luck with people who insist that the only reason poor people are poor is because they "refuse to work." For reals.

Could you explain that firefighters used to be a subscription service, and if your house was on fire and you hadn't paid them, they'd let it burn?

There was a recent This American Life about that coming back -- not with firefighters, but streetlights and park maintenance and stuff.

The who-works-harder debate is just a no-win, because anyone who wants to play the game thinks they work harder than anyone else. It's a distraction used by a ruling class that doesn't have to work much if at all, to take the attention of the "masses" away from the unfairness and inequity between the 99% and the 1%. The wealthy always seem to fear a French-revolution sort of uprising with guillotines. The anger of the poor and the brown is frightening when directed at them, but very useful when directed at each other. The masses won't notice the huge chasm between the wealthy and themselves if they're too busy fighting amongst themselves. America is primed for this sort of thing, with our Puritan-and-pioneer heritage. We strongly value hard work, strict moral behavior, and self-reliance (even when we ourselves don't practice it). The easiest thing to do is get Americans snarling at each other for not working hard enough, not behaving correctly, and relying on help outside the family. The precise ideal value of how hard to work, how to behave, and from whom to accept assistance (and who should give it) differs among different groups, of course, which just adds fuel to the fire. The hardest thing to do is to get angry people to realize they're being played, and their anger is being used to harm them and protect the ones who are manipulating and harming them.