I think you might have missed the whole Tony-award winning part of her bio?

No, not at all. In fact, my point is mostly about how TV works. She's got a solid Broadway past: [link] but they're not trading on the same currency as TV. She's not conventionally pretty enough to be the fat comedian's wife. That's why she stands out. Do you think that female characters played that plain often are leads on network shows? In their late 30s?

eta:

1st ed AD&D made human males 6' tall on average. The latest edition has humans spread between 5'6" and 6'2" - and that's over both men and women.

How come the half orcs are so short? How tall are full orcs?

Consuela,

that's a good question. I have found that most estimates I have gotten from the Internet I have had to modify given my oven. Do you have a meat thermometer?

I would guess 10 minutes per lb at 450 degrees (if you want the nice crispy skin), but it may be more like 15 minutes per lb.

You think Foster, one of the most successful women in Broadway history, couldn't get a leading role because of her looks? What possible evidence of that do you have? I can tell you that tv networks pursue deals with Tony winners, which is why, for example, Sara Ramirez has a role on Grey's.

10-15 minutes/lb sounds good, thanks le n!

You think Foster, one of the most successful women in Broadway history, couldn't get a leading role because of her looks?

I think there's little precedent for the plainness of her character (on network, not cable), and I'm trying to think of another actress around her equivalence of looks (she's prettier than the character, but it's still not the same typical TV lead look) who's the lead in a network drama. Not a lead--the lead.

I've got Kathy Bates...and I can't think of anyone else. Who am I not remembering?

Well, ABC Family's not a network, and I don't see why it has to be a drama, but how about The Killing, The Big C, L&O SVU, Nurse Jackie, or Damages. You're unnecessarily limiting it to a very small sample size of female-led dramas, of which there are fewer than ten, I'd wager. But you started your argument by claiming that because Sutton Foster hasn't done a lot of television, it's because of her looks, which is most likely not true. The fact is that with fewer than ten female-led network dramas out there, there are gonna be thousands of stunning women who haven't had that opportunity either.

Wow- I did not see bunheads yet, but I never thought of Sutton Foster as plain. Certainly no plainer than Patti Lupone (who I do not think is plain) who was probably below Suton's level of Broadway success at the time of Life Goes On.

I also seriously underestimate the level of famousness of Broadway people-- see my astonishment at Tony Vincent being on The Voice. Dude was Judas on Broadway, St. Jimmy in American Idiot on Broadway, and Simon in JCS filmed for PBS.

Also, here is Sutton Foster, her ex-Husband Christian Borle (famous for the "That's on Ebay commercials" and MEgan MacGinnis singing a fun song: [link]

Well, ABC Family's not a network

Clearly. This is also part of my point. I'm saying that Kathy Bates is a standout in the landscape, because she's female, older, not that pretty, and a network lead. I didn't expand it to comedies because I don't know much about them.

I'm confused. It's not just that other women are getting the roles over the plainer women, it's that women aren't getting roles period. But if you think it's just as easy for a older, plainer woman to get a leading role as anyone else, I'm not going to argue with you. I won't agree with you either, though.

you started your argument by claiming that because Sutton Foster hasn't done a lot of television, it's because of her looks

No, I didn't. Because I have no idea if she's had any interest in doing TV, do I? The point I throw out there, that you don't get your pick of lead roles if you're not H'wood pretty (and young don't hurt) isn't something it's possible to either prove or disprove with information I have available to me. But since female actors in general do claim that they age out pretty dramatically, and with TV's overall homogeneity of looks, I do feel comfortable with the assertion that older and plainer female actors have a less easy time getting high profile work.

Yes, Cass, absolutely. And happy birthday!

Happy Cass Day!