Growing-up for goths

Punks grow out of it and ravers stop raving. Why do goths just carry on? Sociologists can explain

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Dr Paul Hodkinson, deputy head of Surrey University's sociology department and an expert in youth music subcultures, has been re-interviewing a group of goths he first studied in the late 1990s to find out. "They were teenagers and in their early 20s then, and I thought it would be interesting to go back because a number of people do stay involved in the goth scene," he explains.

Though many people who belong to youth subcultures such as punk and rave tend to drift away in their 20s, Hodkinson says it's more likely that older goths will want to remain involved in the scene, even though it may become harder to combine with the responsibilities that come with age.

To outsiders, it's the visual markers of being a goth – long, dyed-black hair, black clothes, pale faces contrasted with dark, dramatic eye make-up –that stand out. Taken on their own, these characteristics might be reasonably easy to cast off. However, Hodkinson says that although the aesthetic and clothing are important, the primary tenets of involvement in this subculture mean being "thoroughly passionate about goth music and style, and some goths would tell you they have an interest in the dark side of life, and a natural tendency towards a degree of angst".

This means a level of commitment to the goth scene, and friendship groups and identity that develop around being a goth, which result in social lives that "are so intertwined that it would feel very odd to leave it," he says.

I have a refurbished Kitchenaid, bought from Amazon I think, and it has been fine with weekly use over the past 5 or so years. It's a little noisy, especially with bread dough, but I am not sure if they are all like that or not.

Which all leads me to a new question: Did they put her photo on the cover to show that she's conventionally attractive to further qualify that "there's nothing wrong with her"?

I suspect that's one of the reasons, yeah.

I tried to read some of the comments: EW.

Lots of sirens in downtown today. And I will definitely be leaving the office early.

I have just double-checked my time off, and in addition to the days I was planning to take at Christmas, I have to take seven days off before the end of the year. I don't know when I have time to do that AND do my job. ARgh.

We're talking about writing with a million qualifiers, excuses, rationalizations.

I dunno, they didn't read as qualifiers or rationalizations to me. They read like she expects readers to nod and think, "I can relate!"

And I dunno, maybe they do. I don't know who the Atlantic's typical subscriber is. Maybe it's Elizabeth Gilbert.

I dunno, they didn't read as qualifiers or rationalizations to me.

I have to qualify this by saying I only read the first page, but to me it simply came off as setup. The thing about many previous relationships seemed like a way to explain why she assumed she would have one again, after she broke up with whoever, for instance. And that seemed logical to me; I probably would have assumed the same in her place.

It's all a matter of perspective to me, the grass is always greener thing. I can envy her chances to travel widely and have this fantastic career, but maybe she would look at me and say, "Pfft. You have a husband and three kids."

I need to step away from facebook. Someone I'm friends with -- like, actual friends, not just facebook friends, we've known each other since first grade -- posted something relatively innocuous that just happened to hit a bunch of things that were already bothering me from other sources today, and I responded fairly non-confrontationally, but I know that I'm going to get more annoyed if I keep thinking about it, so I need to just stop responding to that post altogether.

Why not fly and rent a car down there, Tommy?

I have to say I was pretty stoked to be able to register for some wedding gifts. We didn't register for a ton of stuff but I did ask for a KitchenAid mixer, something I've always wanted and never could justify buying myself. And my crazy, awesome aunts got it for me as well as a bunch of accessories (like a pasta maker!) that I hadn't asked for. It was kind of mind blowing. I felt completely spoiled. And my mixer is gorgeous!

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I was really grumpy because my bus was late and I missed the line-up (in Rochester they all line up every hour in the middle of the city and everyone changes buses at once). I decided to go to Family Dollar, which is the only business open after 5 in our ghosttown of a downtown. And I found super cheap wall art for my office at work! Like 5 - 10 dollars. It isn't the best or anything, but it will do for work!

Why not fly and rent a car down there, Tommy?

It's fairly expensive. For the same amount of money I can take a train to Jackson, MS and have a sleeper car on the way down. (I'm doing an experiment to see if I can sleep in coach on the way back, arrive in Chicago 9:00 AM, walk two blocks and catch a train to work.)