A male view for ita !:

Different people mean different things by "feminist," so I'll start by giving my view, which is probably best expressed by the bumper sticker, "Feminism is the radical view that women are people." In other words, feminism means that being a man doesn't automatically give you special abilities or insight into how the world works. (Okay, we can pee standing up. It's convenient at times, but it really doesn't mean anything in the broader context of the world.)

Based on that standard, there is no reason that a man can't be a feminist. You don't have to be of a particular gender to recognize that one's gender does not determine personhood. As well as the right to be treated like a person with the same rights of common courtesy (for starters) that you expect for yourself.

At the same time, there are limits to our ability to truly understand someone unlike ourselves -- and in some way, everyone (except maybe an identical twin, and probably not even then) is unlike ourselves in some way. We may be able to create parallels to certain elements, but we can't truly understand the entire experience. For example, as a male, I can't truly understand what it's like to be pregnant and give birth. So if your definition of "feminist" requires a thorough understanding of what it's like to be a woman, then, no, a man probably can't be a feminist.

I've heard that men can't be feminists, but I don't recall the argument for this.

I remember in college one woman told me it was impossible for men to know what is sexist, and another woman told me she was tired of men always asking her if something was sexist, as men are perfectly able to determine if something is sexist.

So I learned at a somewhat young age that feminism isn't monolithic.

if your definition of "feminist" requires a thorough understanding of what it's like to be a woman

Is there one, on the books, that does? I know there are formal definitions out there.

Does anyone here believe that men can't be feminists? Or is anyone here familiar enough with that position that they can explain it to me?

I don't agree with the concept, but is it perhaps akin to the PoC/gay/trans/etc movements, where you can be an "ally", but if you're not part of it, you just aren't part of it and can't understand all of it, and to have you speak for the group is considered insulting and/or co-opting or whatever? Because it's not your lived experience, and while you might speak well, it's the majority speaking for the minority, and privilege/power implying you know better than the people who actually are part of the group? (There's a better word than co-opting, but it's early here). I can sometimes see the point of that position...but I'm not sure it really applies to defining yourself as "feminist", plus I think sometimes it IS easier for someone on the outside to start to learn/understand if someone from outside the group gives an intro/primer (and saves the people in the group from ONE MORE explaining what's up with their hair/their lovers/their transition status/etc)

is it perhaps akin to the PoC/gay/trans/etc movements, where you can be an "ally", but if you're not part of it, you just aren't part of it and can't understand all of it, and to have you speak for the group is considered insulting and/or co-opting or whatever? Because it's not your lived experience, and while you might speak well, it's the majority speaking for the minority, and privilege/power implying you know better than the people who actually are part of the group?

This is what I was going to suggest might be a reason for someone to say a man can't be a feminist.

I don't agree that men can't be feminists, but I can see reason behind the "ally" argument.

Often, it seems that the statement "I believe in equal rights for women, but I'm not a feminist" gets derided, but if you can't be a male feminist, it seems a perfectly cromulent thing to say, perhaps even if you're a woman. I'm wondering if there's an overlap in the people who'd attack that statement, and the people who'd attack the concept of male feminists.

Basically, I was in the throes of infatuation with a blog that dealt with gender issues (how women are drawn in comics), and she went off on a guy who called himself a feminist, and boom! It's that radical disjointed feeling you get when you haven't yet processed that this person is a person and flawed, and you're still hoping for the impossible, that you'll agree 100% with everything they have to say, and not only do they disagree with you, they disagree with you on something you don't even understand.

I'm not going to exclude white people from the Civil Rights (race-related) movement, and I wouldn't exclude men from being feminists and fighting the fight with that title.

(Okay, we can pee standing up. It's convenient at times, but it really doesn't mean anything in the broader context of the world.)

Technically, women can also pee standing up. Just not...neatly.

Just not...neatly.

Some can. Takes some practice, and some intimate touching, but apparently it's learnable for a few physiologies.

Often, it seems that the statement "I believe in equal rights for women, but I'm not a feminist" gets derided, but if you can't be a male feminist, it seems a perfectly cromulent thing to say

Eh, I'ma disagree with that--it seems to frame feminism in a bad light. I think if you were being strict about it, in the no-male-feminists sense, he'd say "I'm a feminist ally" or "I support feminism/the feminist movement" or whatever. Much as I would say "I'm a trans* ally" but certainly not "I believe in the right to transition, but I'm not pro-trans-rights!" (rather than "I support but I'm not trans" which would be the equivalent to "I believe in equal rights, but I'm not a woman")

it seems to frame feminism in a bad light

I don't understand how. Can you explain?

Is this definition of feminism as simple as "woman who believes in equal rights for women"?

Because, honestly? I don't want to be a part of "feminism" if it doesn't include men. So I would therefore believe in equal rights for women, but not identify myself as a feminist under that definition. Bad light, enh. It's the light the definers want.