It's amazing how many people don't seem to have an internal censor between the brain and the mouth. I've been guilty of it in the past, although I've learned ... the hard way. It's especially surprising how many people in public life who you'd think would have learned haven't.

And now ... to demonstrate the power of the press - at the farmer's market there's a vendor I go to on a regular basis. They raise all kinds of greens - lettuces, herbs, watercress, sorrel - in hydroponic greenhouses. In the middle of winter, they sell fresh, crispy, clean greens. Last week in the food section of the paper they had a big article about them. This past Sunday the market opened at 10:00 am. By 10:22 (they timed it) they were just about sold out.

They were happy, if a bit stunned. I'm trying what was left - baby tatsoi. I had to look it up to figure out what to do with it.

Thanks smonster!

that's awesome for the growers, Toddson!

Oh web permissions, you make me tired.

(Because "this woman" sounds mad sexist.

Thank you! I started listing off my background, before realizing that I don't need to defend myself to him. His building experience is more recent than mine, and he has an architecture degree, but he doesn't know shit about taking buildings apart.

Much like he would get out of control if you really called him "Puppy Boy" at work.)

Oh no, this is Spoiled Brat. Imagine Cordelia as a gay guy, pre-IRS downfall. I really think part of the problem is that he feels that this menial work is beneath him, and he hangs out with a bunch of other rich spoiled brats who have a lot more money than he does (even though his parents are paying his rent and credit card). (Ha! Am I Giles, then, and the rest of the crew are the Scoobies? That's amusing to consider)

What I told him was that I have never pretended to be perfect, and that if he knows more than me or the crew (or just thinks he does), that he has a choice; to sit back and feel superior and make snarky remarks behind my back (OH YES HE DID) or to speak up and share and teach and lead.

I'm not gonna lie, I probably say shit I shouldn't all the time. I have a big mouth sometimes and telling a story will get away with me. But damn.

In other work-related news, I am not going to be fired. But I'm still not allowed to drive company vehicles for an undefined period, including the forklift. Whatevs.

Also, we have the green light to let Puppy Boy go. Now that we have permission, my supervisor and I are both hesitating. But really, he's holding the crew back and taking up too much of my time and energy, and I'm just not seeing the effort that I need to. It's going to fucking crush him, which sucks. Uggh. So not looking forward to that one.

Necessary. Do it.

Let him go. It's not a fun decision, but from what you have described it is the time for it. I have had a few times in my career where my regret is not firing someone when I should have. It didn't do anyone favors keeping them around. Hopefully what will happen is that it will finally get him to realize that his work ethic and behavior carries consequences. This is a lesson the people really do need to learn, and getting fired is sometimes the best way to teach it.

Let him go. It's not a fun decision, but from what you have described it is the time for it. I have had a few times in my career where my regret is not firing someone when I should have. It didn't do anyone favors keeping them around. Hopefully what will happen is that it will finally get him to realize that his work ethic and behavior carries consequences. This is a lesson the people really do need to learn, and getting fired is sometimes the best way to teach it

Cosigned. Also, he's young enough that these consequences might actually help him in the future.

Hopefully what will happen is that it will finally get him to realize that his work ethic and behavior carries consequences. This is a lesson the people really do need to learn, and getting fired is sometimes the best way to teach it.

What I wanted to say, said better.

This is a lesson the people really do need to learn, and getting fired is sometimes the best way to teach it.

And (and I want to stress this) if he doesn't, that's not your fault. The onus is on him to take responsibility for his actions and to learn from his failures. Your responsibility was to provide the environment wherein he could have succeeded if he so chose. He did not, and therefore, the rest of his path is not on you.

Oy. Thank you all. My supervisor told me we had the green light and asked me to consider carefully today; I came back at the end of the day and said it had to happen. Still, I question myself, always, and I wish it were not necessary.

And (and I want to stress this) if he doesn't, that's not your fault.

I know that, and yet, I think I'm still going to be wondering what else I could have done for a while. But really, we've all tried, and we've all given up now.

Sorry to threadhog, even unintentionally. I'm still new to supervising, and I appreciate having a place to vent and y'all's excellent counsel.

I think you will note it's the business owners who chimed in saying sometimes you have to say enough is enough. I'm not saying it's not an incredibly difficult decision, but you do need to make it sometimes, for the good of everyone in the business.

Especially with a program like yours when you're deliberately trying to work with marginal folks, it's tough to make that decision. But I have to do it, all the time, with my students, or I'd go crazy. I do all I can for them, as long as I can, but in the end, they have to own their decisions, particularly their poorest ones.

I think about the kid who pointed a gun at the SO's head. And then the next time we saw him was years later, he was an adult attending a symphony. We had nothing to do with that process; we weren't there for when he got clean and kicked the gang and recovered his love of music. But we were there for him when we could be. We had a role to play in one part of his life, and we did the best we could with it. And then we moved on.

We never stopped loving him or thinking about him or worrying about where his life would lead. But we also could not have him in the classroom with a firearm, endangering us and our other students. He was always welcome without it, but since he'd been recently jumped, he felt insecure without it, so he made his choices. We had to make a difficult decision that put the well-being of our other students ahead of his. There's no soft, nice way to say that. But he made a choice and that choice had consequences.

Fortunately that story has a happy ending (and his baby was adorbs, I have to say) but whether or not it did was up to him, not us.