Yeah, I can see her position and desire to avoid a certain awkward situation. And it's probably better to know and move on. But it's annoying. And doesn't help my general state of mind.

When you leave things out in a grey zone for 20 months, that creates its own problems. So that's probably why she felt the need to articulate boundaries.

P-C,

So, I appreciate your point of view and feeling like you got the brush off BEFORE you asked, but if you get the courage/interest when you speak to her, I wonder if you could casually ask her why she thought you might ask her out? You might tell her your intention was to go as friends so her statement didn't bother you, but you were curious?

On the one hand, I'm a bit in ita's camp, admiring her assertiveness, but on the other hand, it is a bit presumptuous. I wouldn't have done it like that.

I wonder if she had a bad break up recently or something. It sounds like a raw nerve is hanging out there.

It was sort of odd, but I don't think she's dated anyone in the time I've known her, so I guess it's more what Hec said, that I've probably been putting out signals she wanted to quell just in case.

it is a bit presumptuous

But given that PC said she'd be the one woman he'd ask out, I don't think it's *entirely* presumptuous. She read some signals appropriately.

I know it's horrible to be rejected, but yeah, better now than possibly later when it's a bigger deal for both of you.

Sorry for the awkwardness, P-C.

I think we're going to have to fire Puppy Boy. ::sigh:: He probably averages at least one fireable offense a day. But the kicker is, he just doesn't get it. I've spent HOURS trying to figure out how to help him, typing stuff up, giving him resources, and I just don't see the effort I want to see. Instead I hear that he's complaining about our meetings. Firing him might even be doing him a favor, showing him some actual consequences, but there's no guarantee - he could well spin it as us being out to get him, or something.

Each time you discuss Puppy Boy I feel like you are talking about my first born! He just doesn't get it and totally spins all his failures as other people's issues.

Unfortunately I can't just be objective when it comes to B. I am worried sick about him. He is apparently being evicted tomorrow. I had his dad go to his place yesterday and get all his furnishings (except a couch to sleep on) and bring them all to our warehouse. Homelessness is his problem to solve, but I don't want him to lose the belongings too. He lost his wallet, which is the most recent excuse for not getting a job. His roommate lost his wallet with the rent money in it. Of course it doesn't occur to them that having dozens of friends around playing video and drinking games all day and night might contribute to 'lost' wallets. He'll get tired of it and turn it around at some point. We are trying very hard to let him figure out on his own that his friends are losers since telling him so just puts him on the defensive and delays the realization.

DH was in tears last night. The apartment was far worse than he had imagined. Broken beer bottles, cigarettes stubbed out in the carpet, painted crap all over the walls. He blames himself. I don't. My son will be 20 next month. He makes his own choices. He had the option of going to college, or even working and living at home. I have to believe he will get sick of living this way and decide to turn his life around and he knows we will be there when he is ready. In the meantime I am sick with worry.

Oh, Laura. I'm so sorry. It's so hard to sit by and watch people you love learn hard lessons (and I say that having also been the one learning a hard lesson). Here's hoping the Clue Fairy comes soon to your boy.

I know it's horrible to be rejected, but yeah, better now than possibly later when it's a bigger deal for both of you.

I gotta say, I'm with ita ! on this one (and again, have been on both sides). I'm guessing you weren't as stealth as you thought, and she's probably been through it before. I had a guy in NC I met online to whom I repeatedly stressed that I was only interested in being friends, and he kept wanting to meet me and "just hang out," and I eventually started ignoring him. I emailed with him one last time to let him know I was moving away. His response? "My one regret is never being with you." Protip: don't do that either.

And I have been on the other side, where I was genuinely trying to be okay with just friends, but there was always a part of me hoping for more, and they knew it, and there was awkwardness. Ah well.

Laura, I'm so sorry that you have to go through this. I'm speaking about my own B at the moment, but in a conversation with my therapist a few weeks ago, she was saying that people can change on a dime, but only when they want to. Which was encouraging to me but, but it is so hard to watch someone chose to live in a manner that just looks like it makes them miserable.

Hey Laura, if you think it would help, tell your DH that Nick went through a (thankfully) short stage of that kind of thing, too. His apartment looked a lot like that. He's worked for the same company for several years (he's a manager now), same girlfriend for almost 3 years (they're talking ring!), and he's taking night classes in something network/computery. B'll make it. He's got a good foundation.

P-C, I hated the feeling that there'd likely never be A One much less THE One. I'm sorry you've been feeling it.

Smonster, fortitude and peace. It's hard to do the right thing sometimes, or even know what it is. Good on you for coming out the other side of the money freakout.

Hil, can you cut and paste something?

I know there was more, but I lost track. I'm still reading along, though, and sending ~ma and cheering good news and all that lovely stuff.

Hi Deena! Good to see you!

I've also been on both sides of the friends issue. I've mostly been ok with respecting or setting the boundaries, but one friend of mine shocked me. I had been friends with this guy for years, as was my DH. We often went out and did things together, in groups as well as just the 2 of us. Never thought twice about it because we were friends. After I set him up on a dinner date with a friend they ended up never coming home and went away for the weekend. (his mother called me worried) They fell madly in love, got married, and have a couple of teens now. The big shocking discovery to me was that once he had a girlfriend/wife he never went out to lunch or anywhere else with me again. It was suddenly inappropriate! And the girl was my friend. Other friends advised me it was because he had always wanted more with me and once he was involved he moved on. Still annoyed about losing my friend.