(Not making light of anyones celebrations, just making note, how intertwined Christmas has become in many different traditions. Norse. Germanic. Roman. Dunno what else off the top of my head. Most of which have nothing to do with the birth of the baby Jesus, which many think happened in September, not December.)
But from the perspective of a Jewish parent (or, at least, my Jewish parents, and the parents of most of the Jewish kids I grew up with), all of that is still Stuff That's Not Ours. It all goes in the "We can help our friends celebrate their holiday, just like they can come over here and light the menorah and eat latkes with us, but their holiday is at their house and our holiday is at our house" pile.
I thought he was born in the spring, with the lambs, which is why the shepherds were out in the hills.
There are lots of theories out there. But it seems the one thing most agree upon, is that being born in December, would most likely not have resulted in shepherds in the fields, as it is winter. I've heard both April-ish and September-ish theories. Some based on the census and taxes. Some based on the harvest. Who knows.
But from the perspective of a Jewish parent (or, at least, my Jewish parents, and the parents of most of the Jewish kids I grew up with), all of that is still Stuff That's Not Ours. It all goes in the "We can help our friends celebrate their holiday, just like they can come over here and light the menorah and eat latkes with us, but their holiday is at their house and our holiday is at our house" pile.
True enough. I'm surprised Christians haven't borrowed more from the Jewish traditions. They stole from everyone else!
t snerk
(edited because it came out mean instead of funny.)
wow, uh, killed the thread. Everyone have a nice latke on me!
Can't take you anywhere. Ya always killing the thread on us. Sheesh.
ION - there is a group on campus, that is banging a LOT of drums right now. I wonder if it's related to the Bishop ceremony being held across the street. [link]
It was strange coming to work today, and the parking garage PACKED, and getting on the elevator with a couple wearing beret and cloaks with the Jerusalem City Cross logo. And my brain remembering it from Assassins Creed, and trying to remember which group the logo belonged to. It hit me by the time I got back to my office. Ya just don't see folks in capes that often. Especially with big logo's across them.
In the mean time. The drums are driving me bananas! And I can't leave early, because we have dept holiday party tonight. Blarrgh.
We could identify Christmas stuff even if it wasn't things that were directly connected to Christianity
Okay, so an ankh isn't really extant in anything other than co opted (NPI) Christianity, so I'm trying to think of something else--the Hindu "Om" symbol? Yin yang sign? Lotus flower?
Those still too vague? I guess, you grow up in a predominantly Christian country, those are the symbols that you don't accept but do recognise right away.
(Not making light of anyones celebrations, just making note, how intertwined Christmas has become in many different traditions. Norse. Germanic. Roman. Dunno what else off the top of my head. Most of which have nothing to do with the birth of the baby Jesus, which many think happened in September, not December.)
As I understand it, it's the other way around. Christians co-opted and incorporated existing celebrations into Jesus birthday funtimes.
Hil, I'm sorry you feel uncomfortable. I guess with all the mice business, you're probably not inclined to make a deal of this. Are you lighting a menorah (just curious)?
Religious and holiday stuff can pretty fraught. I grew up treating Hanukkah and Christmas pretty casually, being in an interfaith home (Methodist and Reform). But D didn't celebrate Hanukkah at all when very young, and while he and his family were Lubavitcher it meant passing out menorahs to other Jews. And now he's basically atheist (I think). So I'm all like, LATKES WHEE! and he's all like, sure I'll eat some potato pancakes.
Also, weirdly, my mother kind of believes there's a war on Christmas. I'm like, you have been married to a Jew for over forty years - WTH?
an ankh isn't really extant in anything other than co opted (NPI) Christianity
I still see what you did there.
Probably the stretchiest pun I didn't
quite
make.
