Jayne: Captain, can you stop her from bein' cheerful, please? Mal: I don't believe there is a power in the 'verse that can stop Kaylee from being cheerful. Sometimes you just wanna duct tape her mouth and dump her in the hold for a month.

'Serenity'


Natter 68: Bork Bork Bork  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Liese S. - Apr 21, 2011 10:50:03 am PDT #4581 of 30001
"Faded like the lilac, he thought."

I have been lucky in that the only really wealthy people I know are self-made wealthy people who live very very conservatively. Like turn off the lights when you go down the stairs conservatively.

And sure they can do stuff like buy two shoe stores or a farm or two Mini Coopers when they decide they want to. And yes, I had a really good time picking out a super nice sound system for them (it's fun spending other people's money!) so it's not as if they're miserly, but they also are extremely generous. They've given us literally tens of thousands of dollars over the years. They bought our lot for us to serve as collateral for our house build. (That was a fraught few months before our construction loan paid them off, I'll tell you what.) And we're only one of the many charitable works with which they are involved.

Anyway. They were good for us during the build insanity (do I need granite countertops? They don't have granite countertops.) because you can get really caught up in acceleration there. And they have been good for us in general, like, learning how to prioritize in budgeting and whatnot.

As far as the independently wealthy thing goes, I feel a little sad to discover in this conversation that being independently wealthy right now wouldn't solve any of my problems. It couldn't undo the tsunami. It couldn't reverse the damage to my father's health. It couldn't reduce the amount of abuse my students face.

I think about the only thing it would change is that I wouldn't have to do the summer fundraising camp gig that I'm so dreading. Which I guess says something really good about my life. I like my job, my house, my family. And I guess on a certain level, it's like when I was in seventh grade and I worked my way up to the popular table, got invited to the best parties, and then discovered those kids were all vapid and I was happier hanging out with my loser buddies.

Because we were making over $100 grand, and living in a $300/month apartment to boot. So the cash we had, it was disposable. And there was definitely stuff we loved about that, mostly to do with eating at the blues bar all the time. And we were paying off massive debts, so it wasn't all in pocket. But a lot of it was. I considered myself wealthy at that point.

But I was never so happy as when I walked away from it and was sitting on a dirt floor in the middle of the desert teaching a little girl how to knit, not even my job. So I guess I feel like being wealthy didn't buy me anything I wanted, except the ability to not make money. That next year I made $11,000. Deceptive again because I quit before the SO, and his salary was the bulk of it, and because housing was free for a while there. But still.

Today is different because we're living in a town, feeling like we're scrambling to make mortgage. But also we were able to pay taxes out of our emergency fund and some gear sales. (I realize Dave Ramsey says taxes are not an emergency because they come around every year, but he also says the govt is the last person I want to be indebted to.) So in a sense, even though we scramble and scrimp a lot, I feel more financially secure than ever, and more settled. Which is a weird spot to be in these days. Of course we know that everything is subject to loss. But right now, I feel better than I ever did drinking Guiness every night and going to concerts every weekend.


Liese S. - Apr 21, 2011 10:50:41 am PDT #4582 of 30001
"Faded like the lilac, he thought."

Ooh. That was talky. Sorry!


Zenkitty - Apr 21, 2011 10:59:23 am PDT #4583 of 30001
Every now and then, I think I might actually be a little odd.

Suzi, can you take a loan from your 401k? I did that to pay off the last of my debts, and I was very glad I did. The loan has to be paid back, of course, and in my case they took it directly out of my paycheck (which didn't hurt too much), but at least you're paying it back to yourself.


Kate P. - Apr 21, 2011 11:07:47 am PDT #4584 of 30001
That's the pain / That cuts a straight line down through the heart / We call it love

Ooh. That was talky. Sorry!

And fascinating! I just read that Atlantic article and a bunch of comments, and now I'm all thinky. I love reading about your life, Liese, and your attitudes towards all kinds of things like money and compassion and work and social change.

One thing I have had occasion to realize in the last couple of years is that we are now financially stable enough to be able to give a good amount of money to charity. How much, and when, and to whom, are perennial questions. But it is a good position to be in, and I am glad to be able to do it.


javachik - Apr 21, 2011 11:10:24 am PDT #4585 of 30001
Our wings are not tired.

How much, and when, and to whom, are perennial questions. But it is a good position to be in, and I am glad to be able to do it.

Yes, this is my favorite thing about finally making money.

I love reading about your experiences and perspectives, too, Liese. Please don't apologize for sharing. Share more!


Kate P. - Apr 21, 2011 11:10:26 am PDT #4586 of 30001
That's the pain / That cuts a straight line down through the heart / We call it love

And, because I haven't said it here yet, though I've been thinking it: Many, many sympathies to Jilli and Pete and Fred Pete and Hubs; a strong dose of job~ma to Gud; and tons of no-cancer~ma to Typo Boy!


Daisy Jane - Apr 21, 2011 11:11:59 am PDT #4587 of 30001
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

Apparently we are going to pray the wildfires away. [link] wish us luck with that.


Jesse - Apr 21, 2011 11:13:22 am PDT #4588 of 30001
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

I love reading about your life, Liese, and your attitudes towards all kinds of things like money and compassion and work and social change.

Yeah, me too.


SuziQ - Apr 21, 2011 11:21:24 am PDT #4589 of 30001
Back tattoos of the mother is that you are absolutely right - Ame

Zenkitty - I had done that a while back and it is one of the things I want to pay off. That plus my student loans plus a pre-divorce credit card.

The only thing I can access is a hardship withdrawl to pay current student debts. I'm not a current student, so I can't even do that. Why can't I sell my own 401k stock?!?!? I knew there would be penalties, but the fact that I can't touch it at all....grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.


Liese S. - Apr 21, 2011 11:24:50 am PDT #4590 of 30001
"Faded like the lilac, he thought."

Aww, thanks guys. I get thinky sometimes.

I guess it's weird for me because of the whole living off of other peoples' generosity thing. I feel like I live so high on the hog these days, but it's all other people's money.

And because I hang out with all these crazy commune-living Christian anarchist types, my perspectives on money and social change are probably somewhat skewed. Like right now with me trying to get my punk vocalist buddy to come live in my house this summer. He probably can. His life is already on the edge, and he wants to go more feral. I have another buddy who lives in a tepee in Wyoming so he can travel around and do photography.

So compared to them, me chucking The Man and building passive solar and growing peas in my sunroom pales in comparison to their vision of giving up everything to work for social change. And I sometimes envy that. I mean, my punk buddy violated the sanctions against Iraq during the between-wars years, and delivered medical equipment to the people. He met with Tariq Aziz. He watched US warplanes take potshots at shepherds and came home to speak out against it.

Over time I have come to see the work I do as working for peace and justice, one kid at a time. But I think there's something to be said for the kind of grand gestures he's capable of doing, and he can afford to do it by utterly rejecting any normal sort of lifestyle. I have yet to make that jump.