Ooh. That was talky. Sorry!

Suzi, can you take a loan from your 401k? I did that to pay off the last of my debts, and I was very glad I did. The loan has to be paid back, of course, and in my case they took it directly out of my paycheck (which didn't hurt too much), but at least you're paying it back to yourself.

Ooh. That was talky. Sorry!

And fascinating! I just read that Atlantic article and a bunch of comments, and now I'm all thinky. I love reading about your life, Liese, and your attitudes towards all kinds of things like money and compassion and work and social change.

One thing I have had occasion to realize in the last couple of years is that we are now financially stable enough to be able to give a good amount of money to charity. How much, and when, and to whom, are perennial questions. But it is a good position to be in, and I am glad to be able to do it.

How much, and when, and to whom, are perennial questions. But it is a good position to be in, and I am glad to be able to do it.

Yes, this is my favorite thing about finally making money.

I love reading about your experiences and perspectives, too, Liese. Please don't apologize for sharing. Share more!

And, because I haven't said it here yet, though I've been thinking it: Many, many sympathies to Jilli and Pete and Fred Pete and Hubs; a strong dose of job~ma to Gud; and tons of no-cancer~ma to Typo Boy!

Apparently we are going to pray the wildfires away. [link] wish us luck with that.

I love reading about your life, Liese, and your attitudes towards all kinds of things like money and compassion and work and social change.

Yeah, me too.

Zenkitty - I had done that a while back and it is one of the things I want to pay off. That plus my student loans plus a pre-divorce credit card.

The only thing I can access is a hardship withdrawl to pay current student debts. I'm not a current student, so I can't even do that. Why can't I sell my own 401k stock?!?!? I knew there would be penalties, but the fact that I can't touch it at all....grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Aww, thanks guys. I get thinky sometimes.

I guess it's weird for me because of the whole living off of other peoples' generosity thing. I feel like I live so high on the hog these days, but it's all other people's money.

And because I hang out with all these crazy commune-living Christian anarchist types, my perspectives on money and social change are probably somewhat skewed. Like right now with me trying to get my punk vocalist buddy to come live in my house this summer. He probably can. His life is already on the edge, and he wants to go more feral. I have another buddy who lives in a tepee in Wyoming so he can travel around and do photography.

So compared to them, me chucking The Man and building passive solar and growing peas in my sunroom pales in comparison to their vision of giving up everything to work for social change. And I sometimes envy that. I mean, my punk buddy violated the sanctions against Iraq during the between-wars years, and delivered medical equipment to the people. He met with Tariq Aziz. He watched US warplanes take potshots at shepherds and came home to speak out against it.

Over time I have come to see the work I do as working for peace and justice, one kid at a time. But I think there's something to be said for the kind of grand gestures he's capable of doing, and he can afford to do it by utterly rejecting any normal sort of lifestyle. I have yet to make that jump.

I was at a talk with some of the original Freedom Riders yesterday, thinking about how maybe I could have done that when I was their age (college-age, at the time), but maybe not even then, and there's no way I would do it now. Leaving school in the middle of finals, probably getting kicked out of college, to go someplace where you are likely to get beaten, arrested, and possibly killed? I don't think I could do it.