Huh. I've never ever thought of "wife beater" as derogatory to women. I consider it derogatory to a particular class of men, actually. And for that reason, I wont wear those kinds of shirts. ETA: Well that, and they look like ass on me, and almost everybody else.

Not interested in derogatating men either!

It's not derogatory to women in particular, I would say, other than the fact that it's making a joke out of something that is seriously not a joking matter.

While an admirable notion, I don't think that's entirely true, Trudy. I never known you to shy away from calling a douchnozzle a douchenozzle, whether male or female.

And the point I was making is that I consider it derogatory toward a particular group of men, whose one common trait is being a douchnozzle. The penis thing is kind of incidental, at that point.

ITA with Trudy (edit: re: tramp stamp). I've gotten used to the term, but it's still shitty. I love my lower-back tattoo, and the placement was pretty damn deliberate for personally meaningful reasons. And I think it looks lovely there.

It's not derogatory to women in particular, I would say, other than the fact that it's making a joke out of something that is seriously not a joking matter.

I don't find it particularly jokey.

I'm in total agreement with everyone on "tramp stamp," but I must say, I'm surprised to see objection of the term "wife beater." I guess I'm coming at it from a different place in my head, but I always considered the term derogatory of men who beat their wives, which is a group I would argue deserve derogation.

which is a group I would argue deserve derogation.

Yes, but - while the term is arguably denigrating men who beat their wives, it's also associating that behavior with a certian class/status marker.

It's a reasonable piece of clothing for its purpose, a sleeveless tank top to wear under other shirts. Why insinuate that it's the preferred wear of men who beat their wives? Every time I hear it assume it's a slam on whomever is wearing such a despicable piece of clothing.

Plus the whole "how funny is it to insinuate you hurt your spouse." I got a store employee fired for telling me to stop beating up my husband when Hubby was going around with crutches.

That's a really good point, brenda. There's certainly plenty of men who beat their wives who wear suits and ties. But I would say as a counter point, it's not like it's the Official Poor Uniform, or anything. Even within that particular associated class, there are other outdoor sartorial choices you can make that won't make people make blind assumptions about you.

And yes, that's a concession that labeling someone who wears a sleeveless tee shirt outside a "wife beater" is an unfair assumption without further evidence.

I'm surprised to see objection of the term "wife beater."

Uh, don't really like to hear/read people talking about inflicting violence upon their spouse, even if the phrase is meant to be a "funny" way of referring to an undershirt. Why WOULDN'T I object?