What Jess said. Hope Frisco feels better soon!

Glucsoamine chondroitin has made a world of difference in my knees and was recommended by an orthopedic surgeon. Magnesium definitely makes a difference on leg cramps. I've also been instructed by doctors to take D and Calcium. Beyond that, the great cornucopia of supplements is a mystery to me.

I take a lot of them...they seem to help. But I've also heard/read the expensive pee thing before, too.

Oh, Seska. That bites so hard.

Feel better, Frisco!

Urgh-- conference stomach has hit with a vengeance after teasing me all weekend. I'm in that vicious cycle of having a completely empty stomach and feeling vaguely green, but not knowing whether eating will help or hinder.

Seaka, there have been studies done that show feverfew and magnesium help prevent migraines. The question becomes is the stuff in the bottles you can buy containing the same stuff and or amount that was in te study.

I was curious about the mushroom thing also--how its supp

I hate that. especially since my own personal system has dispensed with the classic hunger pang in favor of abruptly deciding it's so hungry it's sick. Bleah.

Here is the thing about vitamins, folk remedies and such: I'd feel more secure about sneering them away if we had more scientific evidence for the conventional alternatives.

Yes I know that antibiotics and vaccines and large parts of medical science have been proven to work scientifically. But large amounts of what doctors do is based clinical experience, or plain old medical folklore with no more scientific testing than exist for vitamins. For example, as of 2005 there were zero peer-reviewed scientific studies that showed that weight bearing exercise helps osteoporosis. It makes sense that it would, but when I last checked nobody had actually verified it scientifically. Now maybe someone has done some clinical studies in the last six years. But because so much medical knowledge has never been scientifically verified, I would be no surprised if not bothered to double check something where the consensus remains do strong.

Now it is not unreasonable for doctors to base their treatments on what amounts to craft lore where no scientific tests have been done. But equally, in the absence of scientific evidence, it is not unreasonable to try and help yourself with the same kind of knowledge that is based on experience not blessed by medical trade unions. That does not mean we should accept stuff that has actually been discredited homeopathy, anti-vax, that sort of thing.

Bottom line: science is a labor intensive process. There are lots of areas of human knowledge where we don't have all the scientific knowledge we should, areas where scientific knowledge is possible and would be valuable, but where we in the human race have just not put in our time. Where the science has not been done, but empirical evidence exists, then we have to make decisions the best we can - including sometimes trying stuff and seeing if it works, even if in the absence of scientific studies there are all sorts of ways that type of "test" can yield false positive.

Typo Boy, that's interesting about the difference between what hasn't been conclusively proven, and what has definitely been shown not to work.

Seaka, there have been studies done that show feverfew and magnesium help prevent migraines. The question becomes is the stuff in the bottles you can buy containing the same stuff and or amount that was in te study.

That's fascinating - thanks. I shall now attempt to find the studies, and work out what they were using exactly.

Thanks, smonster. It is, at least, crap that I should have seen coming!

For example, as of 2005 there were zero peer-reviewed scientific studies that showed that weight bearing exercise helps osteoporosis. It makes sense that it would, but when I last checked nobody had actually verified it scientifically.

This is not true - ten seconds on Google Scholar turned up the following:

Exercise and bone mineral density, PubMed 1995

A decrease in physical activity may lead to an increased loss of bone and an increase in the incidence of osteoporotic fractures. Studies have demonstrated increases in bone formation in animals and increases in bone mineral density in humans. Studies of animals show that bone has enhanced physical and mechanical properties following periods of increased stress. Strains which are high in rate and magnitude, and of abnormal distribution, but not necessarily long in duration, are best for inducing new bone formation, resulting in the strengthening of bone by increased density. Cross-sectional studies show that athletes, especially those who are strength-trained, have greater bone mineral densities than nonathletes, and that strength, muscle mass and maximal oxygen uptake correlate with bone density.

Bone mineral density and long term exercise. An overview of cross-sectional athlete studies., PubMed 1993

In young adults, the highest BMC and BMD values have been found in strength and power-trained athletes, while endurance activities such as long distance running and swimming seem less effective with regard to peak bone density. Intensive endurance training may even be associated with amenorrhoea and decreased trabecular bone density in young females. However, after menopause female athletes show greater bone mass indicating that they do not share the accelerated decline in BMC observed in a nonathletic population.

Osteoporosis in anorexia nervosa: The influence of peak bone density, bone loss, oral contraceptive use, and exercise, Journal of Bone & Mineral Research 1992 (The abstract for this one is too technical to quote an excerpt, but you can visit the link yourself.)

[eta: Those were just the first three I clicked through - there were over ten pages of results for "bone density exercise"]