It still didn't make the holocaust easier to digestion.

What could, really?

I am disappointed to discover that the inflatable sumo suits you can get for $35 are not the kind you can actually fight (or float down the river) in. Those are $375.

What could, really?

Great question. I'd settle for "more compassionate world" as a beginning of an answer that implies we've learned a lesson which isn't "let's create another country, never mind if it's settled or not! Countries for everyone!". Because yeah, nationalism worked really great. Sigh.

This conversation started a bunch of very disturbing memories of stories of survivors who physically hurt themselves in order to remove the tattoo from their arms. The fifties in Israel were a very emotional time. It's a wonder they managed to use so much of this emotion to built the country from almost nothing, but a lot of people paid a heavy price on that specific direction of emotion.

It's a nice reminder that there's more than one worldview.

I thought that's b.org in a nutshell; but thanks!

I'd settle for "more compassionate world" as a beginning of an answer that implies we've learned a lesson which isn't "let's create another country, never mind if it's settled or not! Countries for everyone!". Because yeah, nationalism worked really great.

Yeah, that was my problem answering that question. How insufferably smug it would be to say (for others) "Oh, out of great evil comes good, so that totally is the justification."

I mean, isn't it better to strive for "Out of great good comes greater good?"

I mean, isn't it better to strive for "Out of great good comes greater good?"

I totally ::heart:: Erin for that comment.

Also, a real question as to whether Israel coming into existence was a good at all. It has the right to exist now, but whether it had the right to come into existence at the time is another question. And Shir and I have pursued this is the past, I won't make an extended argument. But it needs to be understood that there are real non-trivial arguments to be made the world is a worse rather than better place because Israel came into existence. Again that is not the same as questioning its current right to exist. A child may be conceived as the result of an atrocity, but once it is born that does not bring into question its right to exist.

Also, a real question as to whether Israel coming into existence was a good at all.

Yes, I thought of that, but I have no foundation upon which to debate that question with any real knowledge.

I'm reading the synagogue bulletin. It mentions that, since Yom Kippur falls on the same day as a home football game, parking will be a problem, so they suggest taking the bus.

The hell? I'm watching Andy Griffith. Opie's friend Trey is sleeping over. (They're about eight years old or so in this episode.) Opie and Trey are supposed to be going to sleep, but they're playing army men instead. So Andy tells them that they'll probably sleep better if they're sleeping in different rooms, and Andy brings Trey over to his room to sleep in his bed, with him. I cannot imagine this scene playing out this way in a show nowadays.

The what now? Oy.

OMG I am so tired I want to punch someone in the face and I now have a rehearsal dinner and family time to look forward to!

Lots of opportunites for punching, then.