Really? REALLY? I find that victim-blaming stance just incredible. People continually astound me. And not always in good ways

Holocaust, at the very first years, was a strict taboo. On the one hand, there was the shame of "how we let this happen to us/Why didn't they fight?" (of course, not all facts were known then, since it was such a taboo to speak of. I have no idea, to this day, how my grandmother survived six years in Poland. She never spoke of it). On the other hand, survivors were blamed at "selling" others/things to survive: other Jews, or in the case of some women, that they sold themselves, sexually speaking, in order to survive. It left a deep wound, and there was much effort trying to turn it from a story of shame and catastrophe into a story of strength and heroism. For this reason, the holocaust memorial day in Israel is called "Holocaust and Heroism Remembrance Day".

Edit:

Israel was creating a warrior culture and mentality that made it very different from European Jewish culture

Oh, in the first few years the emphasis was more on working culture than a warrior culture. Israel was truly a socialist country in its beginning: kibbutzes and all of that.

It's not hard to see the dynamic. Israel was creating a warrior culture and mentality that made it very different from European Jewish culture. Throw in a generational divide where you reject/disdain the values of your elders and I can see weird valuations happening.

I can see it, but it's just strange for me to encompass, I suppose.

But on the other hand, can it not be argued that Israel would never have happened (or at least, not in the time frame it did), if it were not for the Holocaust? (And I am in NO way an Israel scholar; I'm just extrapolating from the little I know.) It seems to me that perhaps global guilt paved the way for the state to occur.

Now I am trying to find wording for a wedding announcement that doesn't sound incredibly twee.

"We're married, bitches!"

Is she underage?

No, but there's an age gap of about 20 years.

I don't have anything to contribute to the memory discussion but I am enjoying following it.

Quote of the day:

I do not, for a minute, believe he started sucking cock two weeks ago

Armistead Maupin on Ken Mehlman at the gay journalist conference

but there's an age gap of about 20 years.

Are you too old for her or is she too young for you? I mean, do you know she doesn't date women your age?

Actually I don't know that. I'd be surprised if she isn't shocked when she finds out how old I really am. I don't have a problem with people dating outside their age range but 20 years feels like an awfully big gap. On the other hand, asking is free.

On the other hand, asking is free.

Heh. This made me laugh, because at work this week I started threatening a couple of the teachers that I was going to start charging to answer their questions...that they'd used up all those stored in their question bank.

can it not be argued that Israel would never have happened (or at least, not in the time frame it did), if it were not for the Holocaust?

It's a fair, reasonable statement. It still didn't make the holocaust easier to digestion.

I'd hate if someone else decided that they knew what age ranges I dated within. I have so many other reasons to turn guys down for...age is really really unlikely to be a factor, if they're legal and can keep up with me (so not an issue these migraine-stricken days).