But it zips up half-way. Which means that the seamstress that vw was speculating about, will have something to work with.

Yeah. A good seamstress can make that a low-backed dress or any other number of options.

Signed: Had enormously broad shoulders for a girl even before I got the boobs.

Typo Boy, I think you give too much credit to the six days war and to U.S.-Israel relations with regarding to the awful victim blaming that took place in Israel in the fifties. Eichmann's trial left much greater impact on Israeli conscious of the holocaust.

Shir you may have a point.

Signed: Had enormously broad shoulders for a girl even before I got the boobs.

This is more of a ribcage issue, which was always wide, even when I was a tiny thing.

Now I am trying to find wording for a wedding announcement that doesn't sound incredibly twee.

Oh, the ribcage and back followed along, I didn't look like a T...

Regardless, a skilled seamstress can work wonders if you've got the back half-zipped.

Also it is interesting how the meaning of memory changes. Prior to 1967, it was a common Israeli attitude to be contemptuous of both survivors and dead of the Holocaust. "Briquettes" was a common epithet, convenient packages ready to be burnt without fighting back. And after 67, the other strain that had always been there of turning Holocaust victims into martyrs into some holy became predominant, because the special relationship between the U.S. and Israel was now in full swing. It was now taken for granted that Israelis were tough guys, so it was more important to sanctify the toughness.

Holy crap, the interesting stuff you learn. Really? REALLY? I find that victim-blaming stance just incredible. People continually astound me. And not always in good ways. (Not always in bad ways, either, IJS.)

Really? REALLY? I find that victim-blaming stance just incredible.

It's not hard to see the dynamic. Israel was creating a warrior culture and mentality that made it very different from European Jewish culture. Throw in a generational divide where you reject/disdain the values of your elders and I can see weird valuations happening.

Really? REALLY? I find that victim-blaming stance just incredible. People continually astound me. And not always in good ways

Holocaust, at the very first years, was a strict taboo. On the one hand, there was the shame of "how we let this happen to us/Why didn't they fight?" (of course, not all facts were known then, since it was such a taboo to speak of. I have no idea, to this day, how my grandmother survived six years in Poland. She never spoke of it). On the other hand, survivors were blamed at "selling" others/things to survive: other Jews, or in the case of some women, that they sold themselves, sexually speaking, in order to survive. It left a deep wound, and there was much effort trying to turn it from a story of shame and catastrophe into a story of strength and heroism. For this reason, the holocaust memorial day in Israel is called "Holocaust and Heroism Remembrance Day".

Edit:

Israel was creating a warrior culture and mentality that made it very different from European Jewish culture

Oh, in the first few years the emphasis was more on working culture than a warrior culture. Israel was truly a socialist country in its beginning: kibbutzes and all of that.

It's not hard to see the dynamic. Israel was creating a warrior culture and mentality that made it very different from European Jewish culture. Throw in a generational divide where you reject/disdain the values of your elders and I can see weird valuations happening.

I can see it, but it's just strange for me to encompass, I suppose.

But on the other hand, can it not be argued that Israel would never have happened (or at least, not in the time frame it did), if it were not for the Holocaust? (And I am in NO way an Israel scholar; I'm just extrapolating from the little I know.) It seems to me that perhaps global guilt paved the way for the state to occur.

Now I am trying to find wording for a wedding announcement that doesn't sound incredibly twee.

"We're married, bitches!"