Fretted, huh?

It was the daily stuff. Worried about my dad being arrested and what that would mean to the family (my young self was worried about the car being confiscated, because of course they wouldn't arrest my dad! But no car was bad for us! Several of his compatriots went to prison in AZ.)

Liese,my dad, I love him. He's got a good heart. But also he's got a serious chip on his shoulder when it comes to any religion (got to be back to being thrown out of school. Or not.) He'll align himself with their actual actions, but he holds pretty much all faiths in contempt intellectually. He's done more in person for the things I believe in than I.

Liese. I think maybe it is a question of words, not deeds. Pre-internet. Dad kinda hates religion except for the western quaker variety, which is heavy on action. And even then, suspect.

Okay, that makes sense to me. I understand that viewpoint.

I had a pretty big chip on my shoulder about churches while holding the belief, so I can see having a chip about religion while acting the, err, acts.

The son of one of our missionary buddies, who is one of Dave's closest friends, is an agnostic. But he lives a more Christian life than pretty much all the Christians I know. His rejection of Christianity had more to do with Christians than Christ; i.e. if Christians really believed what they said they did, they would have to lead radical lives, desperate to save people. But since they don't, he felt that Christians must not believe either, so why should he? That does his carefully thought-out views some disservice, because there's more to it than that, but that's the crux.

So I can understand acting without belief.

O, I have thoughts. But I also need to sleep. So later.

Perkins, the Watermelon Rind is gorgeous! I was seriously tempted, and may still get it.

Wow, that's a load of purples--you could do this whole shaded effect from nail to nail to nail. Pretty!

I got Dorothy Who and Eyes Like Sapphires from the same place. I'm not sure I don't like Eyes better.

So I can understand acting without belief.

You'll know the presence of the spirit by its fruit...

Which is sort of my litmus test in matters religious. If those things are motivating your life, regardless of your beliefs, I'm going to respect your actions and see them as somehow... sacred.

Paul had his moments.

[Deleted over-sharing.]

If those things are motivating your life, regardless of your beliefs, I'm going to respect your actions and see them as somehow... sacred.

Exactly. This is exactly how I feel.

Obviously, I say this as a person who believes in God. And I believe in a Diety who knows the hearts and minds of humans. I do NOT believe in humans knowing the heart and mind of God.

It is so far beyond our capacity to grasp The Rules that we just need to a) do our best and b) not declare that this person or that person isn't living up to them.

So I feel comfortable saying that priests covering up horrendous crimes are acting (and are subject to motivations) toward the "hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions" and not the "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control" end of the spectrum. And I'm comfortable declaring that REALLY BAD. And they should absolutely be subject to civil law.

But I don't get to speak for what God will/should do to them (and boy COULD I). And nobody else gets to either, about anything.

And nobody else gets to either, about anything.

Oh I think every and anybody gets to speak to what god will do to them/thinks of them. I just think they're no more likely to be right than anyone else.

Growing up Catholic, attending 12 years of Catholic school, it culturally shaped me in ways that are important and relevant and necessary. In terms of academics, bar none, being raised Catholic helped me understand a lot of literature, particularly early modern, in ways that non-Catholics don't get.

If nothing else, growing up in a strong religion gave me something to rebel against. Unfortunately, I didn't get the academically rigorous Cahtolic education. I think even if there'd been a Catholic school available, I wouldn't have been sent there, so traumatised by nuns was my mother.