Oh, I'm gonna go to the special hell.

Mal ,'Our Mrs. Reynolds'


Natter 65: Speed Limit Enforced by Aircraft  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, pandas, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Cass - Mar 15, 2010 7:24:01 pm PDT #16425 of 30001
Bob's learned to live with tragedy, but he knows that this tragedy is one that won't ever leave him or get better.

I can see if its a condition of driving, as in some states, that refusing X test is penalized in Y way.

It's part of the driving privilege in California. If you are stopped, you submit in one of a few ways. If you refuse, you are arrested and your license goes bye-bye for a while. But it's part of the CA DL, so it's a condition of using those roads.

eta: ChiKat says it clearer and with actual terminology. What she said.

It's not someone proving you are drunk, it's you proving that you are a safe driver and sobriety is part of it.

eta: Certainly driving sleepy can be as dangerous as driving drunk, but you can't test for sleepy.

Sadly. Though I've done it way too many times for comfort. It took ages for it to sink in just how stupid I was being.


megan walker - Mar 15, 2010 7:24:16 pm PDT #16426 of 30001
"What kind of magical sunshine and lollipop world do you live in? Because you need to be medicated."-SFist

I'm clearly not drunk... the opinion of a police officer somehow matters more than any other circumstance in establishing "fact"?

In that they are trained to look for "objective signs" of drunkeness, yes. For future reference: most field sobriety tests give a jury no legally actionable information. However, the eye test they do (usually first) is a biological test, if you meet all three criteria you have a BAC of .1 or above. So, if you "fail" that, it really wouldn't matter in most states if you do a breathalyzer right after or not.


Trudy Booth - Mar 15, 2010 7:24:32 pm PDT #16427 of 30001
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

Illinois has an implied consent law that states if you drive in the state, you have given consent for a breathalyzer, urine and/or blood test. If you refuse, it's the cop's word.

I certainly see implied consent and penalties because of it. But do you lose the ability to argue that you were sober or not driving or whatever? That's the part where it seems tricky to me.


ChiKat - Mar 15, 2010 7:25:22 pm PDT #16428 of 30001
That man was going to shank me. Over an omelette. Two eggs and a slice of government cheese. Is that what my life is worth?

Certainly driving sleepy can be as dangerous as driving drunk, but you can't test for sleepy.

I drive 10 hours a few times/year. I've gotten to where I will pull off at a rest area, lock the doors, and nap for about 20-30 minutes. Does me a world of good.


ChiKat - Mar 15, 2010 7:26:19 pm PDT #16429 of 30001
That man was going to shank me. Over an omelette. Two eggs and a slice of government cheese. Is that what my life is worth?

I certainly see implied consent and penalties because of it. But do you lose the ability to argue that you were sober or not driving or whatever? That's the part where it seems tricky to me.

I edited to make you look crazy. If you refuse in Illinois, it's automatic suspension of your license. Doesn't matter if you were actually drunk or not.


Trudy Booth - Mar 15, 2010 7:27:14 pm PDT #16430 of 30001
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

Hee. You can't make me look crazy, lady. That choo choo chugged out of here LONG AGO.


ChiKat - Mar 15, 2010 7:28:32 pm PDT #16431 of 30001
That man was going to shank me. Over an omelette. Two eggs and a slice of government cheese. Is that what my life is worth?

I believe I have a seat on that train.


DavidS - Mar 15, 2010 7:29:13 pm PDT #16432 of 30001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Others have clarified the point better. You can argue that you weren't drunk but it doesn't matter from a legal point of view in CA once you've refused the breathalyzer.


Hil R. - Mar 15, 2010 7:29:24 pm PDT #16433 of 30001
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

A girl in the town where I grew up, a few years older than me, died in an accident when she fell asleep at the wheel. When my sister and I were teenagers, one of my mother's many rules for letting us borrow the car was that, if we were going somewhere late at night, the person in the passenger seat had to stay awake and make sure the driver stayed awake.


megan walker - Mar 15, 2010 7:29:35 pm PDT #16434 of 30001
"What kind of magical sunshine and lollipop world do you live in? Because you need to be medicated."-SFist

Also, it was stated multiple times in our trial that the question is not whether someone is driving drunk, but whether they are under the influence, and those are totally different standards. That is partly why the BAC > .08 charge was totally separate.