Somehow, this link seems apropos of the religion conversation. [link]

::facepalm:: Oh, state. Why so wacky?

I will note, as I think I have before on the board, that Asheville is a weird mix of hippies and freaks, retirees, and rednecks.

I consider myself religious. Not having particular beliefs about the nature or existence of God or afterlife or what have you hasn't gotten in the way of practicing. It does make it more challenging to talk about religion, because what is in my head attached to the topic is often very different from what is in other people's heads, and finding the words to bridge that gap is hard. Conversations like today's make it a little easier, even if only by showing me what y'all have in your heads a little bit.

After a long and mindbending conversation with a devout catholic friend of mind, I finally came to the concept that my comprehending his ability to believe was as unfathomnable to me as him comprehending my inability to believe. We weren't going to convince each other of anything except what we didn't share. It's not an indictment or critique, just is. It's not there for me. It doesn't play a role in my life.

Fuck. Rib slipped out again. I hate this.

It's something I've been watching my husband struggle with, the whole Higher Power question. That it's a struggle is outside my experience, so getting a little taste of other's experiences is helpful.

That sounds painful, Hil.

I was going to go to bed, and then I clicked on read new, and here I am. I really appreciate this discussion very much. It reminds me of how amazing you all are. JZ said it for me, though I will add that I was surprised by the definition of magical thinking, at first. I've always described my parents' faith=prosperity ideas as magical thinking.

anytime someone offers to pray for my 'healing' (by which they usually mean praying that I'll stop undermining their belief that socially constructed norms are something that everyone can rely on forever), I get very pissed off.

Seska, I didn't feel this way until Aidan was born, and then all the people praying for him to be healed from autism and healed of albinism. I wondered... what were they thinking? I mean, really?

It's not that I don't think that God couldn't tweak his genes if he wanted to, it's just... why? He's a beautiful, happy, wonderful child who can't spend much time in the sun. He's a constant delight (he wrote a book the other day and included the author, not himself, but his favorite author, Sandra Boynton). Why would they want to make him fit in a box?

I don't do much petitional prayer. When I think of it, I stop and, instead, say thank you. My goodness, I have so much to be thankful for. I also don't know, anymore, what happens afterward. Growing up, people who smoked went to hell. Then my grandfather died. People who committed suicide went to hell, and then a church friend committed suicide. And each of those things were chipped away from my parents' beliefs, and I watched that, and wondered. I was raised to believe that depression was an evil spirit, and that masturbation causes arthritis in the hands, but bitterness/unforgiveness can cause arthritis everywhere. Thinking about that, and my health issues now... well, you can imagine what some people think I've been up to. When I think of religion and magical thinking, those are the things I think of, the weird little boxes people create to define the world, the other, the scary things.

An interesting thing is taking off in the fundamental church--meditation. In the 70s, meditation was an invitation to demon possession (as so many things were back then). You were only supposed to _actively_ think "on these things" (love joy peace, etc.) as a form of meditation. Now, 30 years later it's a new thing! Wow! We can meditate and be peaceful and it's okay with God.

And I think that many Christians are narrow-minded and incapable of seeing that more than one group, that scary other, can arrive at a truth and it be truth for them, whoever they are, and for us, whoever we are. One of my parents' (again with the parents, sorry) favorite ministers decided not that long ago that he didn't believe everyone was going to hell. Instead, he believes that everyone will go to heaven. That God is not punitive. That when Christ died for all sins it meant something. Of course, you can imagine what my parents think of him now. I find that I like him more. I'm intrigued by the idea.

And I'm going to stop there because I have no idea how long this is, but I'm betting it's not short.

Deena! ::tacklehugs::

skippity looza- ibuprofen will not interfere with my ability to clot blood/heal a cut, yes? because i seriously sliced up my thumb whilst cutting onions and it hurts like the dickens and i need to take SOMETHING soon. Dang. I've cut myself a lot, but this one REALLY hurts more than usual.

and that masturbation causes arthritis in the hands

Wow, are they ever doing that wrong.