The idea that prayer is magical thinking is concrete. It is thinking that has no root in science.

But that's only if you assume that everybody who prays is thinking the same thing.

I once was at a brunch for a GOVERNMENT AGENCY where they said grace before the brunch!

Several weeks ago I was at a charity gala where there was some sort of televangelist-like moment that made me, my semi-religious friend, and our Jewish seat mates really uncomfortable. (Of course the whole thing was weird. It was for a children's charity in Plano, and as part of the entertainment they bussed in more...ethnically diverse kids from Fort Worth.)

But that's only if you assume that everybody who prays is thinking the same thing.

Why? Prayer is a form of religious practice that seeks to activate a volitional connection to some greater power in the universe through deliberate intentional practice (from wikipedia, but I think it works).

The idea that prayer is magical thinking is concrete. It is thinking that has no root in science.

Non-scientific /= magic. It *can,* but it isn't axiomatic. Prayer is totally unscientific. *Faith,* by its very definition, is unscientific. But not magic, IMO.

We did a "chip in and send a bunch of stuff to soldiers in Iraq" thing this year instead of a Secret Santa exchange and the card they got to go with it was explicitly Merry Christmas and it made me really uncomfortable. I mean, yeah, this country being what it is that's going to be fine for the majority of people on the receiving end. But you know, for some it's not, and the assumption that Christmas and Christianity are blanketly applicable to all is something I just can't stop objecting to. Ugh. I was not much in the spirit of any holiday w/r/t this project, I don't think.

(As an aside, can I say how much I despise the phrase "The Troops"? There something so falsely intimate and borderline propagandic about it.

(See above re Grinchliness)

Why? Prayer is a form of religious practice that seeks to activate a volitional connection to some greater power in the universe through deliberate intentional practice (from wikipedia, but I think it works).

But that's not how or why everybody prays. I mean, when I go to synagogue and look around, I'm in a room full of about 80 people, and they're all praying, but I can't say I know why all 80 are there or what's going through their minds.

I think I'm having trouble communicating because I really am trying not to offend.

I engage in magical thinking when I indulge little superstitions about football. I am pretending (because I understand they are superstitions) that I am exerting some control over the game/my team. Prayer is that, but about life. There is nothing wrong with that.

What definition of prayer would you use, Hil?

I mean, yeah, this country being what it is that's going to be fine for the majority of people on the receiving end. But you know, for some it's not, and the assumption that Christmas and Christianity are blanketly applicable to all is something I just can't stop objecting to.

A few years ago, my mother found some "send stuff to the troops" website where you could look at profiles of the different units and what they said they needed, and she found a few with Jewish soldiers who said they needed matzo, since it was getting close to Passover, and she organized a few friends to put together Passover care packages, with matzo plus all sorts of kosher for Passover goodies, to send to those soldiers.

But isn't superstition a loaded term? Isn't that something we're all supposed to know is fake? As is myth? I also think that in common parlance we're supposed to accept that about magic. Not religion. To the outsider the practice or beliefs might look equivalent, but I think each term is accorded different weight and respect.