Saying prayer is real can only be read as not intended to offend if you assume religion as the default state of humanity. It's a function of religious privilege in that respect.

I disagree. The assumption that religion as the default state isn't relevant here. If I say that fairies are real, I don't think that it's offensive to someone who doesn't believe in fairies.

I really don't think I could disagree more. The assumption (from one side only, I might add) that the intent of the other is to offend is exactly where the double standard comes in. One side is expected to walk on eggshells and the other side is not.

I think that it's generally accepted knowledge that referring to prayer as "magical thinking" can be seen as offensive to believers. While the person may not intend to offend, they know that they might. Someone who professes their religion is often unaware that they might offend. For example, it irritates me that some people say goodbye by saying "have a blessed day", but I'm not offended by it. I'm irritated that they try to lump me under whatever religious umbrella that they have, but I don't think that they intend to offend me.

Someone who professes their religion is often unaware that they might offend.

Isn't that part and parcel of religious privilege? Or just being a generally unthinking person?

Of course, Calli brings up the point that dismissing religion as magical thinking is implicitly dismissive to magic believers as well. Or completely ineffective as a dismissal.

Maybe it's that the phrase "Magical Thinking" is a little loaded as well? I mean, it's a symptom of scizophrenia.

Not really here. Working very hard. Not really here.

eta The above was posted before I read Calli's post. And as a Psych minor, using the phrase in that context, not impugning Pagan belief systems.

Or, more usually, responding to a question about why they don't pray. It's rarely an unsolicited comment.

OK, I can see that, I guess. So it would mean something more like, "If I did pray, then I would be engaging in magical thinking, which I don't want to do"? Which I'm having trouble figuring out, since going through the actions of prayer wouldn't make the person think anything that the person doesn't want to think.

I think that it's generally accepted knowledge that referring to prayer as "magical thinking" can be seen as offensive to believers.

I don't think I can go any further in this discussion without drawing parallels between religious privilege and other kinds, and I'd rather not go there, so I'm stepping away.

And I say "no, it's not" or even "no, I don't think so" and I might as well have smacked someone's mother.

but, you don't have to say anything at all when someone makes a statement. It's a different thing if someone asks what you believe (or don't believe), but if someone makes a statement of their personal belief without the intent to offend, where's the issue?

For example, when my mother says "homosexuality is wrong" I don't say anything. but, if she says "don't you think homosexuality is wrong", I say "no, I don't, and we will have to agree to disagree or not talk"

Yeah, I don't understand how "magical thinking" is offensive and "prayer is real" is not. Unintentional offensiveness is still offensive. Sometimes more so.

I've thought for years that religious ritual and prayer are a form of magic, but I'm OK with magic. I find it fascinating how people of faith don't see the parallels between pagan rites and religious rites, and I see it as a holdover of ancient ways of thinking. What's changed is who the magic/prayer/ritual is aimed at.

Me, I think there's Something Out There, but that Something gave me a questioning, rational mind and would be disappointed if I didn't apply it to every element of life. That said, I'm in the heart of Mormondy, and I keep my mouth shut about my religious practices, because some of these people don't stop with pointing out your soul's destination. They want to make your life a Technicolor preview as well.

Of course, Calli brings up the point that dismissing religion as magical thinking is implicitly dismissive to magic believers as well

Exactly. Because my view is that prayer IS magical thinking, and there is nothing wrong or dismissive of that. But I also admit that I come to this with a different bias than other people.

Yes, I don't find the phrase "magical thinking" offensive at all.