Yeah, I don't understand how "magical thinking" is offensive and "prayer is real" is not. Unintentional offensiveness is still offensive. Sometimes more so.

I've thought for years that religious ritual and prayer are a form of magic, but I'm OK with magic. I find it fascinating how people of faith don't see the parallels between pagan rites and religious rites, and I see it as a holdover of ancient ways of thinking. What's changed is who the magic/prayer/ritual is aimed at.

Me, I think there's Something Out There, but that Something gave me a questioning, rational mind and would be disappointed if I didn't apply it to every element of life. That said, I'm in the heart of Mormondy, and I keep my mouth shut about my religious practices, because some of these people don't stop with pointing out your soul's destination. They want to make your life a Technicolor preview as well.

Of course, Calli brings up the point that dismissing religion as magical thinking is implicitly dismissive to magic believers as well

Exactly. Because my view is that prayer IS magical thinking, and there is nothing wrong or dismissive of that. But I also admit that I come to this with a different bias than other people.

Yes, I don't find the phrase "magical thinking" offensive at all.

I think that prayer is magical thinking, but then I think that performing magic is an act of prayer.

Oh, Calli, I adore you so.

You know, having thought about this, I have to give Jessica props for her statement about the assumption that atheists are assumed to intend to offend. I just realized my own bias here. I don't know what someone said here, but I realized that I was assuming that "magical thinking" was a negative term. And it's not, even if some people automatically attribute negative connotations to it. My apologies.

SEE! I told you that I had a bias and was going to try to work around it. What I should have said is "I might fail!" :)

That's okay. "Fail better", isn't that the line?

If I had time to talk more I'd be failing more, no doubt. But I do try.

It's weird. I almost never talk about my atheism outside of here. But that speaks more to my limited social interaction than anything else....

As far as Christmas goes, I love it. I love the trees, the lights, the music (though, like Kristin and others, I don't like the modern covers for the most part), the present-giving, all of it. And it's totally fine with me that it's a Christian-based holiday. I don't believe in the Christian god, but I welcome all expressions of faith that are about music, trees, lights, generosity, friends and family, sharing, cooking, etc.

I also really like the rituals and meaning of Yom Kippur and what that day represents. I don't like to think of my take on religions as cherry-picking only the good stuff, but rather that I am cool with anything that prompts people to be better to each other and/or introspective and reflective. I'm not going to throw the baby in the manger out with the water trough.

Oh, Calli, I adore you so.

 *blush*

I am cool with anything that prompts people to be better to each other and/or introspective and reflective.

As Saints William and Theodore taught us, "Be excellent to one another."