You may consider prayer, the idea of Christ as God, and the Holy Spirit to be "magical," but the people who believe in them do not consider them to be "magic," and to suggest that is just as disrespectful as Christians expecting atheists to get on board with the godhood of Christ.

So (and I ask this as a person who was raised by atheists, and is thus somewhat sympathetic to their position), do you wish the atheists around you to lie about their world view? Because that's what it sounds like. To my parents, prayer and divinity are magical thinking, unsupported by evidence and science.

Bad? I don't think so. Unenlightened, unintelligent, gullible, and ignorant. They definitely treated me with less respect after they found out. Like my judgement could no longer be reliable.

Yup. Very much this. Not like they suddenly thought I was bad, but I'd suddenly shifted in their perspective from "regular person" to "possibly slow, with high likelihood of stealthy assholeishness."

And, damn, now I want some hot buttered--well, hot buttered anything in the appropriate liquor family is fine, I'm not fussy as long as it's hot and buttered--and I desperately need to hear "Fairytale of New York." I'm still feeling like I somehow missed out on Thanksgiving because although there was plenty of stuffing, we missed both radio playings of "Alice's Restaurant."

I've encountered Christians who were sure Gandhi went to hell.

Well, if Hell is other people, and Hindhus believe in reincarnation...

So (and I ask this as a person who was raised by atheists, and is thus somewhat sympathetic to their position), do you wish the atheists around you to lie about their world view? Because that's what it sounds like. To my parents, prayer and divinity are magical thinking, unsupported by evidence and science.

This is my question too. Is there any way to talk about atheism honestly without "disrespecting" religion at some level?

Re: myths. Here is a conversation we had in class today (keep in mind, I teach 8th grade):

Me (in response to a somewhat unrelated comment): So, S, you'd be the one to see all the little 5 year olds lined up to talk to Santa at the mall and tell them, aren't you?

R (another student): Yeah, S, you'd go up and tell them Santa isn't real!

P (another student...delivered with total sincerity and a look of supreme sadness): What? R, you just broke my heart. What are you saying about Santa?

R: Uhh........

I started laughing out loud. P totally had him going and it was wonderful.

Also, and totally unrelatedly, for crap's sake, people, there are a solid dozen people hovering over these awesome boots; please, someone, pony up a bid.

(Not my boots, though my sale--I'm putting up a bunch of Deb Grabien's stuff up to help her out, and it's depressing and inexpressibly irritating to see how much utterly gorgeous couture is going for pennies or completely unsold. Stoopid non-bidding watchers. I hates 'em, I does.)

And, damn, now I want some hot buttered

If you haven't tried it with bourbon, I Highly Encourage It. Of course, I'm totally biased WRT bourbon vs. rum.

"Alice's Restaurant."

I hadn't even realized that I hadn't listened to it. Of course, Thanksgiving was a little weird this year.

Not like they suddenly thought I was bad, but I'd suddenly shifted in their perspective from "regular person" to "possibly slow, with high likelihood of stealthy assholeishness."

I feel really weird and defensive when I talk about going to church. Especially b/c I totally still struggle with the concept of Jesus as Savior, etc.

This is my question too. Is there any way to talk about atheism honestly without "disrespecting" religion at some level?

That's been a problem, simply by stating my position people assume I'm looking down on them. Therefore, I just try to avoid the subject.

So (and I ask this as a person who was raised by atheists, and is thus somewhat sympathetic to their position), do you wish the atheists around you to lie about their world view? Because that's what it sounds like. To my parents, prayer and divinity are magical thinking, unsupported by evidence and science.

No, I wouldn't expect them to lie about it, but I would also not expect them to tell someone that they are wrong without being asked. That being said, I expect that if an atheist says "I'm an atheist", they are often flooded with questions and people trying to tell them they are wrong.

Life experiences like mine either make you really devout or really skeptical.(I am the reason the skeptical bench has wheelchair seating, I think.) But when I was eighteen or nineteen, I had that college freshman obnoxious atheist phase(and in my case I was, absolutely a snarling, judgmental pain in the butt on the subject...it was probably good for someone else's faith that I don't believe that anymore, but can anyone believe anything like a college freshman? Even one that went to kind of a bad college like me.) Now, I'm not sure...there are things I like and don't about a lot of spiritual traditions but I can't say I really have one myself. I mean, I grew up Lutheran, but to be a hundred percent honest, about the only thing I'm sure that means is that we were NOT Catholic. Even though it's not that different,just, like, shorter, and less stained glass. But I still feel sad, looking back, about the suspicion that made me freak out when my stepdad wanted to take us to Christmas mass...I I mean, his family is full of wacky Catholics that don't exactly make it not look scary, and he was trying to horn in a bit and create Insta-Family, but I just repeated knee-jerk prejudice and I wish I hadn't.(That's not the reason he went insane, though) I have "FairyTale of New York" cause it's in The Wire soundtrack.