I think it must really be generational, because my mom thinks the same thing, and she has never been married and doesn't really have a high opinion of the institution! But marriage = man + woman, and anything else is completely fine and good, but not actually marriage.

Sort of related to this topic, I have some conservative friends who I really respect, who really think that the government should stay out of things and then things will be good. And they have a very strong moral fiber and really believe in doing what is right, and most of the time I agree with them about what is right. So it occured to me (who was raised an independent liberal who always thought of conservatives as the bad guys) that these conservative believe more than I do that people are good and will do the right thing. That is, they believe that left to their own devices, people will help each other and make sure no one is left destitute by and illness or will go hungry. And I, a liberal, think that people are inherently selfish and that if someone (the government, church, societal expectations) doesn't interfere, people tend to look out for number one and other people will go hungry, bankrupt and ill. This is a mind change for me, because I always have seen liberals as people who care about others and conservatives as out for their own gain.

I've always been a hobbesian liberal (life as nasty, brutish and short) and been all about the social contract as a means to mitigate it, but a concerted effort, not a natural thing. Locke pissed me off for reasons I've forgotten on that account. I think he thought it was our nature, which I think is BS.

My mother is 83, and we have political differences, but she does agree that gay couples can't have the same legal rights without marriage and she, unlike any of her relatives, some years ago concluded that being gay was not a "choice" and, in essence, that it was a shame to make people unhappy. We're not exactly on the same page, but she's got a good heart.

Al Franken is much better at being a politician than I would have expected: [link] A woman in a Tea Party shirt confronts him about health care at the State Fair, a crowd gathers, and he talks for ten minutes and actually gets several of the people nodding in agreement to several of his points.

That is, they believe that left to their own devices, people will help each other and make sure no one is left destitute by and illness or will go hungry.

But I think there's a darker strain that believes that people who are destitute deserve it -- this is America and everyone has the opportunity to succeed, so if you don't, that's on you.

But I think there's a darker strain that believes that people who are destitute deserve it -- this is America and everyone has the opportunity to succeed, so if you don't, that's on you.

THIS.

Yeah, well, they're wrong, and have stupid hair. David Simon said so. He used about a million more words than that and a whole television show.

I'm thirding Jesse's point. I think the darker strain is way more prevalent.

K's arguing with a cousin on FB about the president's speech. I'm in bed and she was like, "Help me come up with a punchy comeback."

"oh, honey, losing sleep to fight crackpots on the internet is so 2000."

Kat, has she seen this?