While the Dollhouse gets points for stopping Sierra's abuse, don't forget that they're the ones who set her up as the perfect victim in the first place. She's had her personality and memories wiped and her handler - who she's programmed to trust absolutely and who has the power in the relationship - was the one they picked to be in that position. There probably had been hints in his past that he'd be likely to take advantage of anyone in his power.

And I'm getting more and more tired of the extent to which the women on the show are subjected to violence. Even if they can fight back, they're being subjected to a lot of being hit. And until Mellie's programming kicked in, she was being beaten, strangled, dragged around that apartment.

And I'm getting more and more tired of the extent to which the women on the show are subjected to violence. Even if they can fight back, they're being subjected to a lot of being hit. And until Mellie's programming kicked in, she was being beaten, strangled, dragged around that apartment.

Yes, I find that viscerally squicky as well.

yes, the women are being subjected to violence, but they're not the only ones. Paul gets beaten up just about every show. And, although the women are subjected to violence, they ultimately come out on top.

I know... logically, I know. But it still makes me clench.

If I may ask, did it bother you on Buffy? I remember reading about how Buffy was the first show where women really fought and got hit, and it really disturbed a lot of people.

I wonder if some of it is the attitude Eliza projects during fight scenes. I remember the fights between Buffy and Faith (or Angel and Faith) were by far the most disturbing fight scenes on either show, and I think it was the vibe coming from Eliza.

The scene with Mellie bothered me, but it was supposed to. The audience was definitely being set up to think she was toast. In fact, for me, it was giving Maddie's murder on Twin Peaks a run for the money. However, I was so relieived when the twist came that I didn't care how disturbing the set up was.

I think it bothered me less on Buffy because (1) she went out looking for vampires, etc., to kill; (2) she was aware of what she was doing and was pretty much prepared for it; and (3) I don't remember it being so unrelenting. It just seems that week after week we've seen women - who aren't actually aware of what's going on (having been programmed) being beaten. And, often, they aren't prepared for it - when the guy decided it'd be fun to hunt Echo, or in the cult show when the leader hits her, or this past week when Mellie's in the apartment and Hearn (that was his name, right?) breaks in and starts beating her.

And he had the striking FBI lady trying to find out who she was.

Let me also cast my vote with finding her very striking and cool. I wouldn't mind her character being expanded at all.

I wonder if some of it is the attitude Eliza projects during fight scenes. I remember the fights between Buffy and Faith (or Angel and Faith) were by far the most disturbing fight scenes on either show, and I think it was the vibe coming from Eliza.

Interesting point. ED does project a bruisedness very well.

Buffy fight scenes didn't ping me that way- she was a superhero and it was (usually) against fantasy monsters, etc. It just didn't bother me as much as Esther getting smacked around by various men or Echo getting slapped by the thief guy after being erased and confused or Mellie getting brutalized. However, the Ballard/Echo fight scene was OK in my brain, I guess because it was on equal footing.

For Hec, from way upthread (sorry I missed it).

Did you not see the pilot? Because the slash was very present and intentional.

Yeah, it was me who wasn't programmed to see the slash yet. I hadn't found you guys back then.

And back to Dollhouse:

I liked this episode, but the conversation between Paul and the millionaire was 10 minutes too long and entirely too anvilly. Also, they used 24-type logic to show Boyd back at CTU the Dollhouse before the millionaire had even begun drinking his champagne.

The Paul/Mellie romance was poorly executed. I guess they needed to rush it for the Mellie twist. Which was so expected that it took me by surprise. In a good way.

Boyd does not have the technical know-how to be the inside man. At least not alone.