But she was naked! And all... articulate!

Mal ,'Our Mrs. Reynolds'


Jossverse 1: Emotional Resonance & Rocket Launchers  

TV, movies, web media--this thread is the home for any Joss projects that don't already have their own threads, such as Dr. Horrible.


Burrell - Feb 24, 2009 9:14:35 am PST #80 of 5827
Why did Darth Vader cross the road? To get to the Dark Side!

The sex was still there, Jessica. I thought I read in one of interviews that sex part was something he wanted to explore.


Polter-Cow - Feb 24, 2009 9:15:30 am PST #81 of 5827
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

So it's possible that the sex was cut out of the broadcast version of the pilot.

Nope, it's still there.


Frankenbuddha - Feb 24, 2009 9:21:06 am PST #82 of 5827
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

Was there even a sex scene in the first episode?

I think it was mentioned that she had slept with motorcycle race client, but I don't remember an actual sex scene. I was very distracted when I watched it, though.


Steph L. - Feb 24, 2009 9:23:37 am PST #83 of 5827
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe

but have others drawn the same rape connection that we have?

Quite a few people on LJ (which is the only place I've read) came to that conclusion right away.


§ ita § - Feb 24, 2009 9:28:29 am PST #84 of 5827
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I've read a couple reviews to that end.


Ailleann - Feb 24, 2009 9:31:44 am PST #85 of 5827
vanguard of the socialist Hollywood liberal homosexualist agenda

Echo actually falls into lust or love or limerance with the client, and enjoys the sex.

I don't want to seem like a rape defender, but it's not Echo. It's a fully created personality outside of "Echo", and that personality has consensual sex.

I am in no way saying that this makes the rape issues go away, I'm just saying that I think identity is an important component.


Sparky1 - Feb 24, 2009 9:37:16 am PST #86 of 5827
Librarian Warlord

and that personality has consensual sex

Does it? I mean: Would the clients be paying for an imprint that would refuse them? The Dollhouse seems to be able to imprint the physical and emotional - why not make sure the Actives say yes to the clients? Why would we assume the imprinted Actives suddenly have free will in this particular area?

(Note: I have not watched the second episode, so everything I know about it I learned from this board.)


Ailleann - Feb 24, 2009 9:52:20 am PST #87 of 5827
vanguard of the socialist Hollywood liberal homosexualist agenda

I guess that was a poor word choice on my part. It's consensual in that the personality desires it, or is at least not opposed to it, but you're right, it's not really "consensual" in a broader sort of way.


Typo Boy - Feb 24, 2009 9:53:53 am PST #88 of 5827
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

As to the multiple personality thing: There is controversy about whether Dissociative identity disorder is even real. If it is real there is controversy over whether there are actual multiple personalities or merely the delusion of multiple personalities. And if it does happen there is a question as to whether it happens other than as a side effect of therapy.

So there is no real reason to think the imprinted personality is a separate person, able to give consent for activity Caroline would not consent to. I'm not sure if Alpha is simply a Ninja that did not get erased, or if (as is hinted) Alpha is the merging of every set of memories and skills Alpha ever held. The latter seems to me to support the "sophisticated roofies" over separate personality who gives consent.

I will add that if these identities really are separate identities then maybe it complicates the rape question. (I'm not certain, but maybe.) But then the erasures are murder. So creating new people to serve clients, and then killing them after.


Stephanie - Feb 24, 2009 10:01:00 am PST #89 of 5827
Trust my rage

Quite a few people on LJ (which is the only place I've read) came to that conclusion right away.

I just asked because it seems like a show where rape is common and commonplace would not be something I would think a network would want to produce. Maybe I need to up my cynicism.