Rockin' shit up.

Yay new Joss thread!

Yes!

Shiny new thread!

So does Dollhouse chat move here now?

Should do.

Ooh, top ten. Sweet.

Hi Everybody!

Responding to sj in Minearverse:

I do see it as rape and not prostitution because I see the question of consent as perpetually nullified by the process of mindwipe. I agree as well that it borders on child abuse to me because of the null state between imprints.

I thought that I would see it as prostitution, Molly Millions style, but there is an important distinction from that (already disturbing) premise, which is the null state. Caroline having signed the contract, she essentially kills herself. Echo never reverts to Caroline in between jobs, she only exists as the imprint or as nobody.

In that sense, there is no one available to give consent. Furthermore, beyond the loss of free will in generalities, there is an equivalent loss of individual choice in specifics resulting in the imprint's belief that every client is her One True. That is far more insidious in execution than Molly's version of prostitution. That the imprint gives consent to the intercourse during the context of the job is irrelevant as that consent is manufactured based on false premises.

I'm moving over a comment of sj's from Minearverse, now that we have this thread:

I see Echo as more of a prostitute than a rape victim. She didn't have much of a choice before signing that contract, but I'm sure that many prostitutes feel they have no other choice as well. Echo gave up everything, whether or not the contract is legally binding, she knew she was giving up her free will.

Regardless of whether such a contract could be legally binding (it can't), a person cannot -- let me reiterate that, CANNOT -- consent in advance to sex with someone they've never even met. Not even in a legal document (*if* such a thing were legal). That's not how consent works.

Throw in the mind-wiping, and every single assignment where "Echo" is pimped out and has sex with someone is actually Caroline being raped. *Caroline* didn't consent to have sex with adventure-sports-stalker guy (and, come to that, neither did "Echo"; a weird imprint who isn't real consented -- theoretically -- to have sex with him).

She *is* a prostitute, no question. She's also a prostitute who gets raped every single time an assignment sends her out to be a fucktoy for some rich entitled prick, because neither Caroline nor "Echo" ever had a chance to consent to the sex.

And *that*? Is rape.

she knew she was giving up her free will

Agreeing with above responses that consent to sex is consent on a case by case basis with periodic opportunities to change your mind. You cannot give meaning full consent in advance of knowing who you will have sex with and without the ability to set limits as actual circumstances arrive. Heck recent case law agrees that even if engaged in actual intercourse if a woman changes her mind and says stop and the man doesn't stop, that is rape. And it makes perfect sense.

(That is one reason by the way the libertarian position on prostitution is not as obvious as some people think. While on net, I think the libertarian argument still wins, that outlawing prostitution does more harm than good, it is worth noting that a significant amount of actual prostitution really is rape. And prostitution is a lot more likely to be rape for trafficked persons than for local prostitutes. )