I think that Echo can break out without violating the premise of the show--it just means that one had stated the premise wrong. The premise of Alias might have been that a woman had a second life working as an agent for what she thought was the CIA, and then her realizing it wasn't true violates that premise--or maybe that wasn't precisely the premise after all.

Yeah, I think that part of the problem with the show for me is the lack of a point of view character. I can't have Echo's POV because it doesn't have a contiguous existence yet. And until I understand a little bit more, I don't have Langton's POV because I can't envision a scenario wherein I would think it acceptable to be complicit over my objections.

I normally identify with the geek, but you know that ain't happening with Topher who is one of the most toxic people in the story. It could be Ballard, but we barely know anything about him right now other than he's obsessed, ridiculed, and is ignoring his pretty neighbor.

Who else could it be? Evil madam? Hot Asian chick with no backstory yet? Any number of the other women? No, there's no there there. I need to be able to see into the story from somewhere, and if I can't then I am just myself, finding the situation reprehensible.

What was great about the unaired pilot was that it gave us a "Why?" to the choosing of the time entering into the story. Ballard was on the point of giving up on the Dollhouse until they meddled, and they inadvertently reaffirmed his mission.

You know, why start the story now?

In BtVS she entered a new school and Giles found her. In FF Simon and River, as well as Book and Dobson boarded Serenity and changed the crews lives irrevocably. I don't see DH having that.

But besides that, they didn't give us a viewpoint to follow, entering this world, aired or unaired pilot. Not that it's necessary, but with shows like Farscape, having Crichton's pov helped loads.

I am still watching - I though the third ep was more interesting than the first two, but I'm still just... I think I probably have the no point of entry problem, too.

I want to see where things are going, because I can't believe the show as it is is it. I don't know. I'm just very confused. It's not even, "Oh, I see what you're doing here, but it's not my bag." I just don't even see.

I gave it three episodes. If it starts getting good, I'm sure someone will mention it, and I'll come back.

Gotta say, it's very disappointing that the most positive things I'm reading here and elsewhere are from people who are willing to hang around in the hopes that it gets better. Which - you know, yes, I hope that it gets better, but, damn, I wish that I were reading SOMEBODY commenting on what's aired so far (I mean, hello, 3 episods in now!) saying what a great concept, what interesting characters, what great acting, what punchy dialogue - you know anything that wasn't an apology or an outright diss.

Because, c'mon, BtVS and AtS were awesome, and Firefly owned my ass. Not flawless, fine, but still so much goodness there, in ensemble and world-building and dialogue and just the whole thing.

I hope the show improves. A lot. I miss having a kick-ass Whedon show to get excited about.

what a great concept, what interesting characters, what great acting, what punchy dialogue

Yeah, not so much of that in Dollhouse. I mean, it's not even an interesting or well written offensive premise! The writing is shockingly bad.

I'll keep watching because there are hints that it might get good, and because of Langton, (and because I enjoy making fun of it in a MST3K way) but, yeah, a great concept, interesting characters, great acting and punchy dialogue would have been nice to have from the get-go (if they happen at all.)

I just don't know what happened. Does Joss have unrequited Eliza love that is neutering his talents and abilities? Some sort of kryptonite situation? I don't know what to even make of it. Probably just that he fell in love with his concept (and/or Eliza) and it sucked, and there's really nowhere to go from there.

Does Joss have unrequited Eliza love

I've heard this remark several times. Is there a rumor out there about this that has some weight?

I haven't heard any rumors, but just the whole setup of the concept and the complete blindness to the reality of how the show is often indicates the craziness of love/obsession.

Also, the fact that he's so gushy about her incredible talent and how she's totally brilliant and can play anything and the evidence seems to point to.... not so much... I don't know what to think.

I'd like to move to the AU where instead of Tru Calling there was a great BtVS/AtS spinoff about Faith on a motorbike, kinda Supernatural meets The Avengers, with Ethan Rayne or Giles, and probably Oz. Snappy dialogue, canonical bisexuality, random monsters. Occasional crossovery goodness.

eta Oh, Jesus - and Lindsey McDonald, back from the dead. And maybe the ghost of Lilah Morgan, making with the sexy snarky banter with Faith. And I could go for a bit of Connor too, even. I like the way she can so totally kick his ass, and is so spectacularly unimpressed by him.

looks for portal to AU.

ends up in world without shrimp